I am syndicated at one of the blog networks that you dare not name.I’ve already decided that once I find a full time job, my syndication and community leader days are over because I’m not getting much of a return on that investment. For now, it’s just resume filler — I’m getting experience in community evangelizing and online writing. I haven’t been picking up subscribers at my own blog and I don’t receive any monetary compensation — the bulk of the people that wind up at my blog find me through Google. Nor do I think my best posts are getting syndicated. The most recent one was just a half baked a ha moment that had no business being syndicated. The only plus is that I have made a number of connections via the network that I didn’t have before. But what I’ve found is that I only circulate with people that joined about the time I did, and I have very few new “Friends” following that initial burst. I found it really funny that a commenter on the blog of the site of the G”randmaster of blogging,” with regards to the network we dare not name, suggested she charge people to take part in the blog network because it’s such great exposure. . . I laughed at loud at that suggestion. As if I’d spend time researching and writing to pay someone to post my work. No thank you. So for me, there were short term gains in terms of contacts made/endorsements received, but now it’s just resume filler until I have new job. Then I’m out.
Wow, interesting take and you definitely brought up a lot of things that have crossed my mind in being part of a blog network. I started out as an ardent supporter of blog networks, but I’m coming to realize that maybe I’m not getting, as Zak says, that much ROI. I do feel that certain members get preferential treatment, and in many cases those who befriend the people in charge who get the most out of it. (Then again, this mirrors the real world, does it not? So maybe I can’t complain.) Additionally at times I feel myself bending over to try to fit the mold, to make my content show up on a front page when it’s normally not what I’d write at all. I can’t say that being part of a network hasn’t had its benefits. I think, for example, that’s how I found your blog, as well as a couple of others. For the most part, I don’t find that a network drives very much traffic in my direction — however, often it’s the individual relationships and/or connections that I’ve built through a network that are valuable, more than a great deal of traffic.
Interesting post, Monica. I think you make some solid points, especially in highlighting the directly negative aspects of sharing content traffic between your blog and the network.
However, I guess I question slightly the premise of your critique. Does anyone really join a blog network and expect to get more traffic on their own site, or to get paid, or to have their content chosen based on merit? I was never promised these things, nor did I particuarly expect or count on them. You cite “hidden truths and empty promises” that are covered up by myths… but at least for Brazen Careerist, I was never really promised anything. I had no illusions about what was happening. This was clearly a start-up company that would eventually be profiting from the eyes laid on my content. Now it’s true that they didn’t advertise this explicitly to me, and sold it to me as a “community” and as an “exciting opportunity” to connect and share with other Gen Yers. That’s not a lie; it is those things too. While they didn’t explicitly tell me they were a start up looking to profit from my content, they never led me to believe I’d get more traffic or get paid either.
The point I want to make about the value of blog networks is this: the value is gained indirectly. It is not measured in page views or dollars, but in ideas and community and legitimacy and other fuzzier, subjective values and denominations.
Now, I don’t blog to make money or to promote myself, but I do enjoy maximizing exposure to what I write. For me it’s a mixture of hobby, personal development, and self-enrichment. Our content is CC-licensed to be used and distributed by whomever as long as we are given credit. Whether eyes fall on it through the blog, feeds, networks, aggregators… as long as I get credit and maybe a link back to my blog (which BC gives), then I’m cool. I do understand that other bloggers write for other reasons: to promote their brand, to make money off of ads on their site, etc. So they should definitely think twice about joining a blog network if their goal is to maximize views on their actual blog. But really, I don’t see how it can hurt, in the aggregate, to give your content another channel to propegate through Just like books and news actually gain value from being indexed by Google: you may not get the value from that particular view, but the more eyes your stuff is seen by, the more people will click through to your site, subscribe to your own feed, follow you on Twitter, etc.
Another important point is that you’re going to get more value the more time you invest in that community. The more you read other posts on the network, the more you comment and dialog with other writers, the more you engage the moderators… the more likely you are to be featured on the front page, linked to by those other writers, and generally seen as a power player in the network. It’s not enough to simply give the OK to have your feed added to the network stream. A network is not an aggregator; it’s a venue with an audience and community that takes engagement and investment to pay off (figuratively speaking).
The value I get from being a member of a blog network is:
- legitimacy (I get a badge for my blog and feel “legit” because I’m a member of a greater group of bloggers. This both gives my blog some superficial sheen of authority, and gives me a little self-confidence and pride as blogger)
- community (Similarly-aged and -minded bloggers that might not otherwhise have read my content see it, and I read theirs to expand my own views and ideas.)
- exposure (Who knows how many people read my stuff on BC and never come to my blog, but if there’s one reader that does then that’s one more reader I might not have otherwhise had.)
- motivation (I know that a moderator will look at my content and consider it for the front page of the network, and so I work that much harder to polish it and make it a little more interesting)
Also, your comment system seems to be a little out of whack… seems to strip all the pararaph breaks and other formatting right out?
Jarred, sorry about this. I tried to fix this manually on your comment and a few other long ones, and hopefully did an okay job. I’ll have to look for a permanent solution later today! – Monica
Monica,
Sparking a great discussion here. Kudos on the chops to post something that raises these kinds of questions but isn’t bitter. To be fair, I’ve been in the loop (on some level) with your former employer since the very initial discussions about the network, and these were the kinds of questions I raised then and the answers I’d basically had to come up with myself – since of course I could look at my own numbers after launch and see the trickle down traffic to my site was measly compared to what had been implied. I do think Jarred brings up some good points, regarding to me what is the fundamental difference between two pretty big camps of professional-niche blogging these days: Do it for cash or do it for personal branding. To me, that’s the distinction that’s missing from your commentary. I understand and agree with you that the blog as an entity gets the short end though blog networks. But to me, the larger question is, what are you going to do with your blog? Because if you’re not making money there anyway (and don’t plan to) then it seems blog networks wouldn’t cause much damage. So if you’re in it for your personal brand or online name/reputation/identity building, then join tons of blog networks, because that will give your brand equity it wouldn’t have otherwise online. But now, back to the question of the blog as an entity. Since I blog about the value of relationships, I see this whole issue from that perspective. And I had hoped BC would help me form more relationships – probably, it could have, (and it has, a few) but the fundamental issue to me is, I didn’t have the time to put into it to get that out of it. At the end of the day, that element of it is like one more social network, and I simply don’t have time to spend doing that all over the internet. I can also say, Jarred, just FYI, that BC hasn’t always been so generous with their links. Now at least they link to your blog with your name and profile and in your posts. In fact, BC is nearly always at the bottom of my inbound traffic for the day. At the start, they linked to your profile, which had a tiny link at the bottom that linked to your blog. I was never happy about that, so I am glad to see they changed things. I am not that jazzed, though, that when a post of mine is published, they strip out any info on my RSS subscription when I put that at the bottom of my post (it used to post, now it’s stripped) and that the conversation I take the time to cultivate there isn’t shared back at my own blog. So I’ll have to say, there are definitely times I feel like BC takes way more than it gives – but it is not alone as a blog network. It seems to me the only great examples of blog networks I see are the ones that pay their own communities openly, transparently, and proportionally to the work they do to build the content and the community. So if BC is struggling, I would suggest that they find a way to make the model of generosity and community work for helping us bloggers monetize our own efforts. Better believe I’d do a lot more with it if that were the case – and I would be fine if they benefited from that, too. But I think they will find unless there are some absolute, concrete (possibly unique) ROIs they provide to their bloggers, they will start to see their ranks decrease. We’re all figuring all this out as we go along, and to me, what I am learning is that being open and offering true, measurable value means you have a product or service your members will actually use and build – and sell – for you. Thanks for the thought-provoking insights! Best wishes as you embark on this journey – hope you learn and share a lot!
I think if you are an experienced blogger, you probably don’t need to utilize a blogging network too much. Most likely because you’ve already built up a community around your blog. But, for beginners, a blogging network like BC can be a good way to learn about blogging, blogging styles and writing in general.
I also think that you can get connected with others who are discussing similar topics and learn how to stretch your own niche. I think your post provides a great alternative view to understanding the true purpose of a blogging network and pulls the “wool” away from your eyes.
Also, if you are properly promoting your blog, a network might just be a great way to connect with others you may not otherwise know in the blogosphere.
I’m a part of at least one of the same blog networks, including the syndicated network of which you spoke. To be fair, when I was first starting out with blogging, I was grateful to have found such a place (I contacted them), and still am for all I have learned and the connections I’ve made. These networks were useful in that it expanded my audience, challenged me to be honest with myself and my readers in my posts, and helped me to grow as a blogger — though I’ve always been a writer/journaler, blogging was a completely foreign concept to me.
I believe, for me, these networks have served their purpose. I’m now connected to some fascinating, intelligent people whom I may not have had the chance to otherwise meet. Yes, part of my recent successes has to do with my own blog and my own desire to connect, but I do believe that these networks have facilitated those relationships, and in that regard, I credit these networks.
However, I also believe that I’ve gotten out of it what I need to, and lately I’ve been questioning my role in these networks. I think that they are great in helping bloggers get a start, build a community, and, in most cases, provide some terrific information. However, what’s the next step? I think that they only bring you so far, and that you have to carry yourself the rest of the way.
I’m still a part of those networks because I enjoy the connections and the community I’ve built for myself through those networks; however, I’m starting to realize that, for me at least, it ends there. And maybe that’s the whole point of it — to connect. Maybe they’re not supposed to take you further. Maybe the rest is up to you.
Those are my preliminary thoughts. Now regarding your post:
1) “It is really easy to see what you want to see in blog networks. For example, you may think there must be some process to choosing the best content, when there is really preference given to certain members.”
This I have found to be true, and what I found to be the most frustrating. Of course I would love to see my name in lights, to be respected for my writing. I think that’s what anyone who joins a blog network wants, in the first place. But I also want to read relative content and quality writing. I can pinpoint a few posts and blogs who were chosen for awards and/or headliners whose content had me scratching my head for their relevancy, and yes, I’ll admit that I had been frustrated when I thought that my blog offered more relative insight and wasn’t recognized. However, that’s what happens in a network. I get it. I can only hope, in the future, that quality blogs/relative content is highlighted — less for name and more for what it brings to the table.
2) Blog traffic. This is especially why I think I’ve already gotten what I was looking for — and why I don’t perceive it bringing me any further. Your percentage is almost right on the ball. I initially had a high increase in blog traffic on my blog, but that’s because next to no one was reading it. Joining these networks was a chance to get my name out there, but as I formed new connections, met friends, and increased my visibility, I began to see traffic decreasing from the networks and exploding through other forms of social media (Twitter is still my greatest gain in blog traffic, but it’s wonderful because it has become less about traffic and more about maintaining my relationships with readers as people in another way).
The question you bring up is one I’ve debated for a number of months: whether or not to remain a member of these networks. For my personal/personal development blog, absolutely. The connections I’ve made have been invaluable from both a professional and personal standpoint, and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. However, with a new professional blog in the works, I’ll probably refrain. These networks have taught me so much, and through them, I’ve learned how to stand on my own two feet. But as they are limited in what they offer, I can also see them holding me back. I think, like anything else, you get what you can out of it, and move on if that’s what it takes.
Thanks for the post and the chance to voice my thoughts. I’ll be hopping over to your blog more often.
From my personal experience, a blog network (or any network, for that matter) can provide certain things to some people, but can’t make everyone happy all the time. For myself, I don’t know if I’ve gotten much (increase in readership, however, I’m honestly not that good of a writer. But I’ve certainly been exposed to a much better variety of writers, styles, and opinions than I otherwise would have found on my own.
I think, over time, that people either outgrow networks that they are in, or their goals change and those new goals don’t mesh with the network structure. If that’s the case, then moving on is good for both parties. Using BC as an example, it can provide (at least in the front end) an audience that may otherwise not find you, or won’t be able to determine your content from a quick browse of your own blog. But it doesn’t give much to a more established, potentially income-earning blogger.
Much like an NFL coach starts as a low-level assistant, rise in stature, and then gets a chance to run the team themselves (and the large contract that goes with it), the same can be said for bloggers. If you’re already a well-known commodity, then a network like BC isn’t needed. And as for what posts / writers get promoted, that’s more a sign of a good editor than anything else.
You’ve covered some great points Monica. As a Community Manager I struggle with this kind of stuff every day. Because believe it or not, part of Brazen’s overall goal is to make the Community a valuable place for its members. If that wasn’t true, I’d be out of a job.There are certainly tons of improvements we could make to the Community. And to Tiffany’s comment above, I think part of the answer involves continuing to hand over more control to our network. It started with profiles, and will hopefully continue with blog posts, comments, etc. We’re always looking to improve the experience for our users. And reading this post pumps me up to start bringing more value in this new year.
What I think is the most valuable part of any blogging community is its ability to help you network with other people. I’ve seen some great collaborations occur between community members, I even know a few people who got jobs. And for some people (as Raven points out) a blogging community can be a support network, for new bloggers to find inspiration or for established bloggers to reignite their passions.
I can’t speak for other communities, but on Brazen, we do our best to help all our bloggers meet their goals. Since we’re a small team, it’s impossible to reach out to every member individually, but when members come to us for help, we do our best to support them in any way we can.
Right on, Monica. I was quite close to doing a post a few weeks back to recommend bloggers out there, who rely partly on BC connections, to set them selves up for going solo if Brazen goes down the drain. But that had no place on my blog – theme wise – and also was just a kinda negative idea. You went about it in the right way and make some good points. That being said I may as well hang in there. My readership basically couldn’t get any lower!
Just a side note, but I have to say I’m impressed with the quality of discussion going on here. The fact is, blog networks are not the only organizations struggling with these types of issues right now. Newspapers and other websites are currently stuck in a paradigm-shifting idea about how to 1) make money and keep existing (advertising is taking its own course right now) 2) harness the power of a community for its own purposes 3) still add value to the very community they exist to serve and make sure there is not a mass exodus – to keep them coming back, finding unique value, and being engaged.
Think about MySpace for one example, and USAToday for another. So many thoughts on both of these, but I’ll move on and say I would extrapolate this issue out not just to blog networks that are exclusively blog networks, but to all websites struggling to answer these problems.
Have you ever thought about how much money Facebook makes just because of your activity on that site? Sure, you may not create content there, but your activity there inherently does nothing to benefit you but makes money for them. This realization can apply to all online communities, so I’m glad Ryan brought that issue up.
The ones that survive will be the ones that LISTEN to the problems, engage the community in finding solutions they want and need, and answer the issues – fast.
I still don’t really get Brazen Careerist, even though I’ve read anything and everything I could find about it. I’ve even read comments on Penelope’s blog hoping for a clarification of the business model. I enjoyed this post as well as the thoughtful discussion in the comments.
That said, I found your blog through Penelope Trunk and Brazen Careerist, and I’ve added you to my RSS feeder. I enjoy Brazen Careerist because as a young professional I have been introduced to other young professionals I would never have sought out by other means (facebook, etc). At least with Brazen Careerist you know that the people who are blogging are typically open to networking and receiving opportunities. I don’t facebook friend random people and try to spark up conversation, but here I am commenting on your blog.
Kudos for following your gut and doing what you think is right. I hope Brazen Careerist flourishes and the team is able to make the impact they desire.
I’m not going to be as lengthy as everyone else… I don’t have a ton of thought on this at the moment, but here’s a comment I literally got today on my blog:
“I saw this post because it was linked from your “sex is a distraction” article, which was linked from one of the blogs I read regularly.”
I’m still getting new readers from BC. Though, I admit, that I have begun to wonder at what point being syndicated takes away from your own website’s traffic. Something like 60% of my traffic comes from referring sites. Can’t beat that with a stick.
Seems to me that a good step that blog networks could take is reporting to its contributors how much traffic their content is getting. I requested this from BC at the end of last quarter when they asked for suggestions. This way, there would be transparency, at least to the hard “numbers” value that blog networks bring. Obviously this would not be easy and blog networks have little incentive to offer it… but I think it would help.
Also, to follow up on your response to my first comment (and thanks for responding!), I do not doubt that community managers don’t read every feed item every day. But just like I want to grab attention with my résumé in case someone actually looks at it, and then draw them in with compelling experience… so do I try to make my headlines attention-grabbing and my content interesting and unique. There’s no guarantee of fairness, but that fact alone encourages me to work that much harder!
Thanks for your reply. I want to try to answer some of the comments you made…
I hadn’t before thought of blog networks working like social networking sites, but that’s a great comparison, and, for what I’ve found myself using a blog network for, it’s also spot on. But then it brings up the question — why were blogging networks created in the first place? Was it to serve as a place to gather content, solely? Or was it meant for discussion, contacting, and sharing of content? I ask because I really don’t know what the primary goal was, though with the networks I belong to, this seems to be the trend. In that regard, I think that absolutely they serve as a social networking site in their own right.
I don’t plan on leaving the ones I’m in yet because I’m still getting something out of them — which is cementing stronger connections and engaging in conversation. You might be right — it might be sentimentality, wanting to give the network another chance, but I think it’s more along the lines of the same reason why I’m still on Facebook and MySpace, though I rarely use it — it’s another avenue of connecting, and, in a way, increased visibility.
I think my situation is a bit different in that I’ll soon have two different blogs — one more personal/personal development, one professional. The fact is, those are two separate audiences. If I were maintaining one blog, I might be more inclined to reconsider belonging to a network, needing to weigh the pros and cons and its affect on my blog. However, as it stands, I’m able to take what I’ve learned from these networks and apply it to marketing and forming connections through my new blog. Basically, my personal blog — through the connections of these networks — has helped get me to where I can form connections on my own. In this respect, I’m moving on.
I think that a network needs to be mutually beneficial. When I find that I’m no longer engaged, that’s the time to cut the cord completely, so to speak. I think engagement is one answer to your question about staying power — the more involved you are, the more likely you are to see a return and thus hang around (I’m thinking Twitter).
Hey Monica, this is a fantastic post and I think you handled this issue extremely well and in a very fair way. Awesome job on creating a relevant and lively discussion. Another aspect that I think merits some discussion is that online networks have the ability to be less transparent than something that is offline, which is why they can get away with a lot of this. While it’s great that online networks connect people in different locations and time zones, often the people who make up the network don’t interact with each other or the network creators in-person. While online interactions can be quite genuine, there are limits on what they can achieve when you “meet” a person online. There’s something to be said about observing and talking to people “face-to-face.” It’s perhaps easier to hide stuff or not communicate fully when you’re e-mailing or “talking” to someone from behing a computer screen. The post and comments do a good job of examining the the pros and the cons of social networks. I guess it all comes down to what your goals are and to what extent you think a social network can help you meet them.
In reference to a blogger moving on benefiting both parties, I think it’s a matter of short term and long term effects. In the short term, the network might lose a bit of traffic. But they (a) still have the archives, and (b) it gives them the opportunity to showcase other members and diversify their brand (or narrow it, depending).
Think of it this way: JohnnyBlogger becomes so well known that just about all of his posts are features on a network. It could be argued that the network gaining traffic due to his posts, but is losing traffic because people think the site has become too JohnnyBlogger focused. Not to mention, most fans have moved on to his site anyway. If one particular blogger has become large enough to overshadow the network as a whole, then I think the network suffers. Just my thought.
In terms of becoming a commodity in your niche, it comes down to knowing when to break free of a network. Too early, you may not have a following. Too late, then the network might be too intertwined with your brand. Do people outgrow social networks? Absolutely. I still have a MySpace, but I use it to contact certain people in an easier format. I use Facebook, but again, it’s only a tool that facilitates the conversation.
Monica - One reason I get annoyed with blog networks is because of the “anonymous” people who comment simply to be difficult. They play Devil’s Advocate with the sole intention of pissing someone off as opposed to having a conversation. It ruins the discussion and the post becomes a childish game of ”who can out-wit who.”
Keeping a conversation on your blog allows for a much healthier dialogue. (This post is a great example.)
And I really like how Susan and Andrew mentioned that you can “outgrow” a network. I’ve never thought of it that way… but it makes a lot of sense. I’m rarely on Facebook/Myspace anymore, but the time I spend on Twitter has skyrocketed.
I’m not ready to leave my blog networks yet… but seeing the transition from Facebook –> Blogging / Blog networks –> Twitter makes me wonder what my next step will be.
No offense to you Monica but the comments have seemed to eclipse the post a bit (which is a good thing of course, it means you’ve hit on something here). Very thoughtful post and comment.
As both a participant in and owner of a blog network, there are some definite negatives to participating in a blog network as a blogger, especially if it is a poor format. I think making it clear where content is coming from (including links both to the author’s website and original post) and keeping it intact is extremely important. I have obviously advised people who have asked me about SEO impact to really research it. I have been on a blog network for nine months and I haven’t seen any disparate impact in page ranking. That being said, my experience is not other people’s experience.
I think blog network owners should really position themselves as consumer content portals, not blog promotion portals. I think selling it to blog owners that the site is really designed to attract viewers (not bloggers) is smart and honest. I’ve told people that I’d be happy to add their site to our blog network but it probably isn’t going to be featured that often (if at all) because it doesn’t mesh with the site. For the consumer of content though, blog networks can be good. for them. For the HR people that come to my site, they like it because they like seeing everything there. They have favorite authors and such but they’d rather not deal with an RSS reader or go to 50 different sites.
I am fine with people participating one way or another. I think blog network owners have to think about bringing value in someway to their content providers though. If people start feeling like our blog network is not valuable anymore, what good is it for me to fight that unless I am willing to change or discontinue?
It might not be an entirely accurate reference, but this reminds of when I started out coaching back in 2002 (heady days). Bunches of coaches would get together, all exicied that they could be more effective and have more effective businesses if they pooled their talents into a network organisation. It gave us all confidence, a sense of community and a sense of a larger contribution.
I joined a handful of these, each one promising a successful business by leveraging the networks and talents of each member.
It didn’t work, purely because a client wants buys a solution from a particular coach, not a package from an organisation (at least in personal coaching, things work a little differently in the corporate market). I was a little naive in joining these, but 7 years on the real value is in the connections I made and am still in touch with, and as Jarred pointed out – “in ideas and community and legitimacy and other fuzzier, subjective values”.
Sure, these weren’t online networks, but the parallel is that the networks I was a member of had no ROI, and no viable model of getting ROI over and above some pie in the sky numbers on a piece of paper. If there were concrete benefits (as Tiffany mentioned) – to the consumer as well as the contributor – then the network would have been a viable one.
Networks are only useful depending on where you are on the curve. If you’re climbing the professional curve you’ll find a professional network useful. If you’re at the top of that curve you might find it useful to find new talent, but you won’t be engaging with it in the same way. As Susan said, there comes a time when the networks have served their purpose, and then it’s up to you to go the rest of the way, or find another network that can facilitate your rise up the next curve.
That’s the trick I think. To be able to provide enough engagement, enough members and enough functionality to be able to respond to different levels of contributor and consumer — and to evolve that over time. The difficulty is that blogging networks are more vertical in scope where social media is more horizontal.The other element is us lot – humans. We’re hardwired to do the easy things that work — doing something difficult that doesn’t work soon gets tired, and we either look for ways to make it easier or move on entirely. If you’re not getting value (perceived or otherwise) from what you’re doing then you’ll move on. Of course, the value you get could be from adding value to the network or finding ways to make it more effective (a nod of my head to Ryan) rather than a more concrete ROI.
The human element relates to what I’ve been saying about the curve – what’s of value today might not be as valuable to you a year from now or even a month from now. That’s just as it needs to be.
Blog networks, like any network, should expect a churn of participants, because that’s the very nature of the resources they’re dealing with. Ryan’s got a tough job…
Monica Yes, I appreciate the boldness. You know, when people ask me about a topic or view, I warn them with this, “do you want me to be nice or tell you the truth?” You simply told it like it is! There are many points I want to comment on but for the sake of time, a short note on building a blog network around your site. I think people would see more returns from investments in trying to grow their own community and readership. I’ll have to come back later to offer more feedback, thanks for sharing! -Miguel
I was one of the first bloggers syndicated at Brazen Careerist (under a different name, my real one, which I’m now contractually not allowed to use online for reasons of high-profile litigation I and my law firm are involved in) and had myself (and my content) removed about 6 months ago. Regarding your point 4, I always felt like people who had a different voice actually had NO chance of being heard there, and that the network promoted homogeneity of thought and subject matter. And it was in line with this policy that there was the exclusive club of 6 or 7 bloggers who constantly had their posts on the frontpage because they were somehow in accord with BC’s homogenous and BEIGE vision, notwithstanding the authors’ mediocre writing styles or lack of originality of ideas.
Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now. Just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with you, and have not regretted removing my content from the various blog networks.
Great post! It is just this type of discussion that finally made me get off my ass and start blogging myself. I am new to this, although have been reading your blog for some time. I wanted to let you know that I admire your writing and decided to write a post over on my own newly-started blog outlining the recent discussion between you and Rebecca Thorman over at Modite. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again for an insightful post on an issue where I originally only saw the benefits.
Monica, this is great stuff – thank you. I have so enjoyed reading all of the comments – you have built an amazing community. I have to laugh though, because after reading the entire post and all the comments, I thought to myself: “how did I find this post, anyway?” Sure enough, I followed my tracks and discovered that I found you through a post on a syndicator called Bizzy Women, which led me to a post on Modite, eventually leading me here. I have now subscribed to feeds from both you and Modite, so I guess sometimes syndication does work I will say that I always click through to the original blogger’s site and leave comments there rather than leaving them on the syndicator’s site, but perhaps most people don’t do that. I look forward to reading more from you!
I’d say at first blush, I expected something more from the blog networks I’m a part of – but it quickly became apparent they are only as successful as you make them to be, and are only a small piece of whatever life pie you are trying to bake.
For me, blogging in general was never about becoming famous or making money. It was to say something. I think blogging, and being part of a network has exposed me to a wider variety of opinions, and perhaps a slightly larger volume than if I had just been a solo act. But I think the best thing it does is give me clarity and context. Sometime I’m absolutely baffled by why my peers are thinking and saying, and the blog is just a simple aggregator to filter than info through.
Dunno. I can’t see how blog a network’s negatives outweigh even the marginal benefits one may receive – once we get over the psychological disappointment that our name is not likely to be plastered in everyone’s minds any time soon because of it!
You’ve really nailed what has been bothering me for a while now – I’ve always gotten more value from joining smaller networks (or smaller groups within networks). The connections are more personal, conversations are easier to follow and I make more genuine connections. As the networks grow, (which they ultimately must do to make a profit) it’s hard to keep up. A person can only add so many new “friends” and keep genuine relationships. So the network outgrows the people who made it what it was, and eventually they go on to the next thing to try to get back what they had in the first place.It’s a tough situation, and I’m not sure how to solve it. I see the same with Twitter. Where once I would follow anyone who I found interesting, I’m finding it takes a lot more to get my attention for new followers. It becomes overwhelming.
You’ve hit on a very significant issue. Recently, I’ve begun to think that blog networks provide you with the same thing that a good resume letter provides–merely a contact–maybe. So the real question remains, for what do you want a network?
All the research–and there’s been a lot of impeccable research over the past ten years on social capital–pooh pooh technology networks.
Ferrazzi (Never Eat Alone), Ronald Burt (UChicago genius), and Wayne Baker emphasize the absolute necessity of face-to-face networking for opportunities, mentoring, and organizational insights.
If what you’re looking for is effective trustworthy mentoring, the most you’re liable to get from technology is a “possible contact.”
It seems that one key point to highlight here is that no network or community can honestly promise big rewards as a result of membership. The fact is, no matter how much traffic a site gets, the “trickle down” online isn’t scientific. It would be interesting to see a study on this topic…If blogging communities benefit their individual members and in what ways. As with everything career related, goals shift and change. For those seeking exposure and “membership,” communities are great. If a blogger has a specific goal regarding traffic and that need is not being met, the community is not a good choice. Certainly, no one wants to be involved in a community they believe to be taking advantage of them.All that said, I “found” many of the best Gen Y blogs I read (including your blog and many written by my fellow commentators) via BC. When it began, I was thrilled to have a place to go to find well-written, interesting commentary by smart bloggers – all in one place. I do wish they made it easier to follow individual bloggers. I think it’s gotten a bit better recently. The fact is, the bloggers I like, I now know where to find – even when they aren’t on BC’s “front page.”
Andrea, I laughed out loud with the “blog network that you dare
not name” throughout your comment. I didn’t name Brazen Careerist
specifically because I’m really not speaking of only BC. There are
literally hundreds of blog networks that use the syndication model or
allow bloggers to write for free in exchange for “promotion.” Some of
these include Damsels in Success, Mom Bloggers Club, Divine Caroline, and BlogHer.
They don’t all have the exact same model, but operate with the same
premise. (And I apologize for listing all women’s sites, but those were
the few I could come up with off the top of my head.)
I think you bring up a good point that a blog network can be a
resume builder, and probably many people view a blog network as a
larger brand than themselves that they can be associated with and piggy
back off of. I’ve thought about this concept a lot, and I have to
question whether a blog network really is appropriate for resume
building. First, you have to look at what kind of reputation the blog
network has, and consider that if you put a link on your resume there
is a good chance the potential employer will actually visit the site on
any given day. What are they going to see that day? Most likely they
will look at the front page – is the content they see going to help you
or hurt you?
Then, you have to look at whether the blog network would have
name recognition and brand value for the people you are applying with.
Resume builders are only as valuable as their foundations, and a resume
is largely a tool to namedrop, in addition to demonstrating your
achievements. If the job your applying for has nothing to do with
social media or writing or PR, I would question whether a blog network
is even relevant.
Personally, when I apply for jobs (as I’m doing now), I want to
be able to control what the person reviewing my resume sees. The easier
way to do that while still demonstrating my work is to keep the content
on my own site.
I do think you are right about the community effect, but I also
think you can meet people in your niche through bigger social networks,
like Twitter. So that’s my plan for now!
Teresa, your comment struck me in a few different ways.
One is that I think you’re right about how online networking
mirrors real-world networking. The implications of this revelation
could be a blog post in itself, especially given how traditional
marketing and media industries are trying to translate the old rules of
their game into the new ones.
Two is that you’ve touched on one of the main benefits I see to
still being part of a blog network. You found bloggers through one of
your blog networks, and at least in my case, you still read my personal
blog. That is a good reason for me to be part of a network, because I
have clearly gained a reader.
My question is whether that benefit outweighs the cost of being
part of the blog network, and whether we might have met through some
other online outlet, like Twitter, and still have read each others
blogs. I have no answer. In my experience, however, my blog growth was
much higher before I joined any blog networks, which makes me think
that I can market myself decently on my own. And I think everyone else
can too, which is why I want to try no blog networks and compare
results.
Jarred, I really appreciate this comment. I think you give a lot
of the same arguments that Leo Babauta gives for un-copywriting all his
work (I linked to it in the last paragraph I think). I did believe at
one time that since my blog is just for personal branding, it didn’t
hurt me to syndicate to as many blog networks as made sense. Perhaps
being an insider to the social media world and the Web 2.0 startup
world is what left the bitter taste in my mouth, once I realized how
inauthentic the whole thing was. And then I decided that I was doing
better marketing myself before the blog networks (gaining more
subscribers and getting more comments) and concluded that being a part
of blog networks must be hurting my blog growth rather than helping it.
In terms of your closing remarks, I agree with the two middle
points about community and exposure, which you backed up well
throughout your comment. There’s a flip-side to both, so people should
weigh the cons I’ve brought up as well as the pros you’ve mentioned.
I disagree with your legitimacy and moderator points.
I don’t feel that any blogger should use a blog network to get
legitimacy. Legitimacy for me comes from a community of people who want
to talk about the ideas I bring up on this blog, not a company who
posts my content on their site for their own gain. If the company goes
under, what happens to my legitimacy then? I think bloggers need to
establish legitimacy through guest posting and developing a community
rather than a blog network.
The latter “moderator” point about someone going through every
single blog post that gets submitted is just a complete misconception
people must have. Depending on the size of the blog network, an editor
could get hundreds of blog posts to judge per day. The chances of
him/her reading even half of those is unlikely for any blog network.
All blog networks will choose their front page content differently, but
I can guarantee that few blog networks are judging all submitted
material equally.
Tiffany, great points. You are right, that there are two camps
of bloggers – the ones who blog and monetize their sites and the ones
who blog for personal branding. The former should definitely not join a
blog network in my opinion. As for the latter, I still think it’s risky
to join a blog network for some of the reasons you mentioned.
I think I too have a big problem with the conversation-tracking
aspect of syndicating on other blogs. I dislike splitting comments with
another site and have seen my comment levels go way down, and I also
have trouble keeping track of how the conversation forms on various
sites. Conversations in the comments can form completely differently in
different communities.
I also have to point out that the reason a blog network would
strip out RSS feeds and links from a post is because it doesn’t align
with the blog network’s goals, which are to generate traffic and
comments and feed subscriptions on it’s own site so those can be
monetized.
I agree that while many of the comments have been about Brazen
Careerist (natural, because many people who read this blog are Gen
Y’ers), the problems illustrated are applicable to all blog networks,
and furthermore, many other forms of web content, including social
networks and traditional media outlets. At the same time, there is a
great need to organize content on the web. So there is a balance that
has to be met, and some companies will find a way to meet it. I have my
own thoughts on how that will be met but they are for another post.
Thanks for the comment, you brought up so many good points!
Raven, I appreciate the perspective of a newer blogger, and can
see how a network would benefit you in the early stages of blogging
when you are looking for an audience.
At the same time, when I started my blog I was able to build an
audience without any blog networks, by linking to other bloggers in my
niche, commenting on their sites, and offering to write guest posts for
their audiences. It worked pretty well for me, and for others like
Tiffany, in establishing a reader base for our blogs.
I would really urge all new bloggers to consider doing these
things rather than just joining up with a blog network right away. I
honestly do not know anyone who has become a top blogger in their niche
by joining a blog network. It’s just too difficult to thrust yourself
in the middle of a really competitive and large group and expect to
come out on top.
In fact, I am much more likely to read the blog of someone who
has commented on my site than someone in the same network as me, which
is why I’m adding your feed to my blog subscription service.
Susan, great comment. A lot of what you said echos Raven’s
sentiments about how networks are valuable to new bloggers, a
perspective I didn’t really see because I already had a blog going when
I joined the two I was in.
What I find interesting is that you say the network has served
it’s purpose, which is connecting. To me, this implies blog networks
are a lot like social networks in that aspect. They seem to lack the
part that keeps people coming back though, which larger social networks
like Twitter and Facebook seem to have. Right now I can’t really
pinpoint what that extra something is, because even with social
networks, my participation I’ve noticed comes and goes in spurts. I may
be really active one week and then ignore the whole thing the next.
But something that’s even more interesting is that even though
you think the networks have served their purpose you don’t plan on
leaving them. I think a lot of people feel sentimental about
social/blog networks, and maybe feel that they’ve invested time in them
and don’t want to see that go away, or don’t see a point to leaving.
I guess the deciding factor in your last question (whether to
stay on a blog network or leave it) is really more a question of
whether the blog network is doing damage to your blog growth and goals
or whether you are merely indifferent to the blog network. If you’re
indifferent, it might be easier to just stay with limited or less
participation. I think this is what most people end up doing, whether
to avoid confrontation or just because it’s simpler. I know this
happens on social networks too, which makes me wonder how valuable
membership numbers are to determining the value of a website to begin
with.
Andrew, I really enjoy your laid-back attitude to things. You
are absolutely right, that no blog network (and no company, and no
blog, and no piece of art, and no movie) could make everyone happy at
the same time. Your comment and a few before this are indicating a
trend: that people outgrow blog networks. On a broader level, is this
true for social networks too? My guess is probably. In my own
experience, I’ve certainly outgrown MySpace, and even Facebook to an
extent.
One thing that you mentioned that I don’t agree with is that
when a user outgrows a blog network it’s good for both parties to move
on. It’s really not good for the blog network, because as I mentioned
in the post, blog networks need members and traffic to be relevant.
Even if a member is inactive, their profile is still counted towards
the members number, which is one of the main indicators people use to
attach monetary values to any social or blog network.
A final thing that’s interesting about your comment: “If you’re
already a well-known commodity, then a network like BC isn’t needed.”
Wouldn’t it follow then that if you want to become a better known
commodity in your niche, a network isn’t needed?
Ryan, of course I was expecting this comment, and if I were working
at the company still I probably would have written it myself. I think
if anything BC and other blog networks have probably gotten some good,
honest feedback from this comment string. The true test of your
commitment to helping the BC community with their individual goals,
though, would be fixing the issues brought out from the blog post and
comments in a timely manner, even if it meant forsaking the company’s
goals, which are bound to conflict. I do think you mean what you say,
but the implementation, as you surely already know, is difficult. Good
luck!
Torbjorn, I do think that’s one of the caveats of using
social/blog networks, is that you don’t have control over your content.
It’s true that if you invest a lot of time in a company and then the
company has financial difficulties and goes under, all the time you’ve
invested on comments sort of disappears. No blogger should be putting
all their eggs in one basket.
I too feared that I was maybe writing too negatively, and I’m
surprised that the comments have been so constructive actually. But I
really do think this is an important conversation for bloggers to have
with themselves when considering joining a blog network, and I also
think some of the ideas here transcend to other online content outlets,
so if you are interested in “the future of the internet” as I am, it’s
a fascinating conversation
Tiffany, I agree with you on all accounts. The problems listed
here with blog networks are problems in all types of online media. And
we certainly do create content on Facebook, even if it’s not blog
content – so in that sense, we all work for Facebook (maybe put that on
your resume ).
Anyway, you’re right. Companies won’t be able to hide in the
future – the transparency of the internet will force (and has forced)
an emergence of customer service like we’ve never seen before.
Personally, I’m looking forward to it.
Erin, I really appreciate that you found me through Brazen
Careerist. That shows that people do use that particular blog network
to seek out individual users, even though the blog network isn’t
particularly conducive to singling out bloggers. I agree with you that
Facebook is not the place to find random people to start interacting
with.
The question is, where is the right place? For me, I think it’s
Twitter. I’ve experimented with that service for a month or so now and
found that people are incredibly open to interacting with strangers who
want to become online acquaintances or friends. Using Twitter, I am
confident that the network will stick around for awhile (making my time
investments to the network worth it), I can find a demographic who
would be interested in this blog, and I can develop a following fairly
easily. All of this, while controlling the major content I am putting
on the internet, which is my blog content. Who knows, someday I may
outgrow Twitter too, but for now I’m looking forward to the
possibilities.
Holly, I think it’s really great that you’re still getting new
readers from a blog network you’re a member of. Apparently I am too,
which I didn’t realize at first. So that’s something to consider,
whether the readers you’re getting from the blog network outweigh the
costs of, say, getting indexed more in Google. For me, I still think
the answer is no, and that people will find my blog without the power
of a blog network behind me if I start marketing it better. I’m sure
the answer to that question varies from blog to blog, but I wish
someone would put out a study with some tangible conclusions!
I actually think you are a person whose blog would take off even
more on your own. You have such a great blog and such a unique voice. I
am definitely an avid reader!
I think that type of report would be fascinating, albeit an
organizational nightmare to generate. Having been somewhat privy to
that knowledge and having a decent idea of what those numbers might
look like for an individual blogger, I think releasing that type of
information could be both beneficial and detrimental to blog networks.
It really goes back to the question of whether you care that your
content is on your own site where you can control it and own it, or if
you are fine with another company profiting from your work in exchange
for some exposure. Great idea, I’ll be interested to see how that goes.
That’s a really interesting perspective. For the most part, I
think it’s great if inequity makes you work harder. I know sometimes
being a chick has made me work harder in male-dominated environments. I
still think, though, that working towards equity would be the end goal,
would it not? Just because we all know inequity exists in all facets of
life doesn’t mean we should be complacent and accepting of it.
Though you’re right about good headlines – those make you stand
out no matter where your content is in the blogosphere. (Or on a
resume.)
I think the premise behind blog networks is to aggregate content for some greater purpose. Maybe that purpose is a need readers have, maybe that purpose is a need the company has. For me, I just had to decide if the greater purpose was really helping me, or if it was just furthering others goals.
I agree with your engagement point. You really get out of it what you put in.
Jaclyn, I think you make a great point about the use of online connections. Something that annoys me is when people adamantly stick up for people they’ve “met” online. You really can’t know someone just from reading their blog or even talking to them on the phone once. I’ve met a lot of bloggers in person, and their online personalities don’t always match up with who they really are. I’m certainly not saying that anyone is lying about who they are on their blogs, but it’s a lot easier to present your best self online.
Andrew, you make some great points. It’s an interesting way to think of bloggers taking over the network. I guess no matter what, a network can only feature so many people at once, and bloggers leaving the network allows room for new bloggers to get featured.
But I still think a blog networks wants as many members as it can get. So while there are benefits to the readers of the blog networks when bloggers leave it, there is probably not a benefit to the actual blog network.
Andy, I hate the “anonymous” people too. I don’t think that can be blamed on a blog network, but I do think the concept of blog networks mean readers don’t get to know the individual writers as well. So people are more likely to be one-off readers and interpret something differently than the writer meant it. I also think when a commenter is responding to something on a blog network, there isn’t that personal aspect and commenters will write things they would never say in person. Finally, if you’re reading someone’s personal blog you’re there because you want to be, whereas if you’re reading a blog network there may be writers you wouldn’t normally read. Thanks for the comment!
Lance, I wholeheartedly agree with you that blog networks are beneficial to readers. Which is why I think some people would create a blog network – to deliver a new product to readers.
I guess my real issue is whether the blog network is trying to make money from their product. If the are, and they’re using my content to create their low-cost business model – I have a problem with that. If the blog network is just trying to organize content in one place, maybe that’s okay.
I’m not sure how your blog network works, but I do see the need for organizing professional content. I think you’re right, it depends on how the blog network positions itself and if they are honest about their purpose and what their business model is. And I do think that you should develop a “content provider” relationship with your bloggers. I think that makes it a lot more clear to bloggers that they are providing you a product, and they can better decide whether they want to provide that product for free, or what they want in exchange.
I really appreciate the comment Lance, since you own a blog network it was really insightful!
Steve, I really love this comment. I think your parallel between blog/online networks is spot on, and you echo a lot of what other people are saying about outgrowing networks.
The concept of a network having to churn participants fascinates me. It begs the question whether networks can get too big to be useful, too old to be engaging, etc. Are networks ever going to be a viable business model? A lot of what you’ve written, combined with the troubles Facebook and MySpace are having, makes me think networks aren’t good business models. I’m sure people will continue trying though!
Miguel, I like to tell it how I see it on this blog . I think you’re right, though, it’s more beneficial to build a community around your own blog, and to be part of communities around other people’s blogs.
yes, I’ve aim to be intentional about joining other blog’s communitity- I respond to comments by other readers (along with the author of the post), if someone’s comment catches my eye, I might visit their blog and leave a comment and so forth.
Cameron, interesting take. I have to agree that a homogeneous network is really pointless when it comes to “personal branding.”
And I was startled when someone from a blog network (okay, it was Brazen Careerist again, enough diplomacy) emailed me to say he purposely tried to write “beige” posts in order to hit the front page, even though they didn’t go with his blog. My advice to anyone is if you can’t be yourself and get featured on the blog network, you are NOT going to build your own brand using the blog network’s connections or exposure or whatever they’re supposedly offering. He responded he’d probably be quitting soon.
I too don’t think I’ll regret this move. Creative control of my work is important to me, and I’m looking forward to seeing what I can do on my own to market my blog. Thanks for the insider comment!
Virginia, I think you are the third or fourth person to say they found my blog through syndication. Totally ironic.
Even more ironic, this post was never about Brazen Careerist, but judging from the direction the conversation took I wouldn’t be surprised if people were flooding their inbox with requests to join the blog network. Which is a good thing, of course. I’m happy for them and hope the network remains prosperous so I’ll always have a place for them in my resume portfolio .
Thanks for the comment, Virginia. I appreciate that you click through to leave comments on the original sites, and I added your blog to my feed reader.
I’ve actually met with groups from various blog networks in the past (this was actually how I met Monica and started reading this blog). It’s hard to deny the value there, but again, as groups grow and size becomes more important, it may become more difficult to manage meeting in person (at least when it comes to large groups). The rest is, of course, what you make of it.
Amen. I love good research, especially when it comes from my alma mater (UChicago) . I like doing online networking but it’s clear to me, especially in the job-hunt mode I’m in, that my local connections are worth so much more right now.
I think online networking will always have it’s place, but believe online networking has to get more localized to become useful for the average Joe who isn’t social-media obsessed, and may just be looking for a job or friends with similar interests.
I would love to see a study as well about blogging communities.
I think concerning BC you’re right – it is really annoying that you can’t follow actual blogs more easily. If they changed that part about their site I think it would be a lot more useful. It’s nice to use BC to find new bloggers – but in general the front page only has one or two posts per day that are actually interesting. I’ve taken to subscribing to a handful blogs (I say handful, probably like 20-30 though ) of bloggers who consistently put out good material and resonate with me personally.
Of course, to someone else, they might find a 20-30 different bloggers whom they resonate with… and that’s great. But realistically, no one is going to be interested in all 400 bloggers on BC (or however many they have now) and the lack of customization is a huge problem even as a reader and not a member.
This is a great point, because connections are so much more powerful when they are made on a local level as well as online. Thanks for the comment Allie!
I think it’s funny that you read blogs to figure out what your peers are thinking. At times, it baffles me too because I feel so far removed from most people “my age.” I have a husband, a house, and a dog, I don’t live anywhere near my parents, and I plan to stick with my career rather than start a family anytime soon. My guess is you are in such a different place in your life because of events that have forced you to grow up… at least that’s how I feel sometimes. Thanks for sharing!
Monica O'Brien is the Director of Digital at Fizz and author of the book Social Pollination, which helps businesses leverage social media for crazy growth!
"Must read for business owners, marketing professionals, or students looking to understand the next monumental shift in marketing and advertising." Patrick Ambron, CMO of Brand Yourself software
Monica O'Brien is the Director of Digital at Fizz and author of the book Social Pollination, which helps businesses leverage social media for crazy growth!
{ 60 comments… read them below or add one }
I am syndicated at one of the blog networks that you dare not name.I’ve already decided that once I find a full time job, my syndication and community leader days are over because I’m not getting much of a return on that investment. For now, it’s just resume filler — I’m getting experience in community evangelizing and online writing. I haven’t been picking up subscribers at my own blog and I don’t receive any monetary compensation — the bulk of the people that wind up at my blog find me through Google. Nor do I think my best posts are getting syndicated. The most recent one was just a half baked a ha moment that had no business being syndicated. The only plus is that I have made a number of connections via the network that I didn’t have before. But what I’ve found is that I only circulate with people that joined about the time I did, and I have very few new “Friends” following that initial burst. I found it really funny that a commenter on the blog of the site of the G”randmaster of blogging,” with regards to the network we dare not name, suggested she charge people to take part in the blog network because it’s such great exposure. . . I laughed at loud at that suggestion. As if I’d spend time researching and writing to pay someone to post my work. No thank you. So for me, there were short term gains in terms of contacts made/endorsements received, but now it’s just resume filler until I have new job. Then I’m out.
Wow, interesting take and you definitely brought up a lot of things that have crossed my mind in being part of a blog network. I started out as an ardent supporter of blog networks, but I’m coming to realize that maybe I’m not getting, as Zak says, that much ROI. I do feel that certain members get preferential treatment, and in many cases those who befriend the people in charge who get the most out of it. (Then again, this mirrors the real world, does it not? So maybe I can’t complain.) Additionally at times I feel myself bending over to try to fit the mold, to make my content show up on a front page when it’s normally not what I’d write at all. I can’t say that being part of a network hasn’t had its benefits. I think, for example, that’s how I found your blog, as well as a couple of others. For the most part, I don’t find that a network drives very much traffic in my direction — however, often it’s the individual relationships and/or connections that I’ve built through a network that are valuable, more than a great deal of traffic.
Interesting post, Monica. I think you make some solid points, especially in highlighting the directly negative aspects of sharing content traffic between your blog and the network.
However, I guess I question slightly the premise of your critique. Does anyone really join a blog network and expect to get more traffic on their own site, or to get paid, or to have their content chosen based on merit? I was never promised these things, nor did I particuarly expect or count on them. You cite “hidden truths and empty promises” that are covered up by myths… but at least for Brazen Careerist, I was never really promised anything. I had no illusions about what was happening. This was clearly a start-up company that would eventually be profiting from the eyes laid on my content. Now it’s true that they didn’t advertise this explicitly to me, and sold it to me as a “community” and as an “exciting opportunity” to connect and share with other Gen Yers. That’s not a lie; it is those things too. While they didn’t explicitly tell me they were a start up looking to profit from my content, they never led me to believe I’d get more traffic or get paid either.
The point I want to make about the value of blog networks is this: the value is gained indirectly. It is not measured in page views or dollars, but in ideas and community and legitimacy and other fuzzier, subjective values and denominations.
Now, I don’t blog to make money or to promote myself, but I do enjoy maximizing exposure to what I write. For me it’s a mixture of hobby, personal development, and self-enrichment. Our content is CC-licensed to be used and distributed by whomever as long as we are given credit. Whether eyes fall on it through the blog, feeds, networks, aggregators… as long as I get credit and maybe a link back to my blog (which BC gives), then I’m cool. I do understand that other bloggers write for other reasons: to promote their brand, to make money off of ads on their site, etc. So they should definitely think twice about joining a blog network if their goal is to maximize views on their actual blog. But really, I don’t see how it can hurt, in the aggregate, to give your content another channel to propegate through Just like books and news actually gain value from being indexed by Google: you may not get the value from that particular view, but the more eyes your stuff is seen by, the more people will click through to your site, subscribe to your own feed, follow you on Twitter, etc.
Another important point is that you’re going to get more value the more time you invest in that community. The more you read other posts on the network, the more you comment and dialog with other writers, the more you engage the moderators… the more likely you are to be featured on the front page, linked to by those other writers, and generally seen as a power player in the network. It’s not enough to simply give the OK to have your feed added to the network stream. A network is not an aggregator; it’s a venue with an audience and community that takes engagement and investment to pay off (figuratively speaking).
The value I get from being a member of a blog network is:
- legitimacy (I get a badge for my blog and feel “legit” because I’m a member of a greater group of bloggers. This both gives my blog some superficial sheen of authority, and gives me a little self-confidence and pride as blogger)
- community (Similarly-aged and -minded bloggers that might not otherwhise have read my content see it, and I read theirs to expand my own views and ideas.)
- exposure (Who knows how many people read my stuff on BC and never come to my blog, but if there’s one reader that does then that’s one more reader I might not have otherwhise had.)
- motivation (I know that a moderator will look at my content and consider it for the front page of the network, and so I work that much harder to polish it and make it a little more interesting)
Also, your comment system seems to be a little out of whack… seems to strip all the pararaph breaks and other formatting right out?
Jarred, sorry about this. I tried to fix this manually on your comment and a few other long ones, and hopefully did an okay job. I’ll have to look for a permanent solution later today! – Monica
Monica,
Sparking a great discussion here. Kudos on the chops to post something that raises these kinds of questions but isn’t bitter. To be fair, I’ve been in the loop (on some level) with your former employer since the very initial discussions about the network, and these were the kinds of questions I raised then and the answers I’d basically had to come up with myself – since of course I could look at my own numbers after launch and see the trickle down traffic to my site was measly compared to what had been implied. I do think Jarred brings up some good points, regarding to me what is the fundamental difference between two pretty big camps of professional-niche blogging these days: Do it for cash or do it for personal branding. To me, that’s the distinction that’s missing from your commentary. I understand and agree with you that the blog as an entity gets the short end though blog networks. But to me, the larger question is, what are you going to do with your blog? Because if you’re not making money there anyway (and don’t plan to) then it seems blog networks wouldn’t cause much damage. So if you’re in it for your personal brand or online name/reputation/identity building, then join tons of blog networks, because that will give your brand equity it wouldn’t have otherwise online. But now, back to the question of the blog as an entity. Since I blog about the value of relationships, I see this whole issue from that perspective. And I had hoped BC would help me form more relationships – probably, it could have, (and it has, a few) but the fundamental issue to me is, I didn’t have the time to put into it to get that out of it. At the end of the day, that element of it is like one more social network, and I simply don’t have time to spend doing that all over the internet. I can also say, Jarred, just FYI, that BC hasn’t always been so generous with their links. Now at least they link to your blog with your name and profile and in your posts. In fact, BC is nearly always at the bottom of my inbound traffic for the day. At the start, they linked to your profile, which had a tiny link at the bottom that linked to your blog. I was never happy about that, so I am glad to see they changed things. I am not that jazzed, though, that when a post of mine is published, they strip out any info on my RSS subscription when I put that at the bottom of my post (it used to post, now it’s stripped) and that the conversation I take the time to cultivate there isn’t shared back at my own blog. So I’ll have to say, there are definitely times I feel like BC takes way more than it gives – but it is not alone as a blog network. It seems to me the only great examples of blog networks I see are the ones that pay their own communities openly, transparently, and proportionally to the work they do to build the content and the community. So if BC is struggling, I would suggest that they find a way to make the model of generosity and community work for helping us bloggers monetize our own efforts. Better believe I’d do a lot more with it if that were the case – and I would be fine if they benefited from that, too. But I think they will find unless there are some absolute, concrete (possibly unique) ROIs they provide to their bloggers, they will start to see their ranks decrease. We’re all figuring all this out as we go along, and to me, what I am learning is that being open and offering true, measurable value means you have a product or service your members will actually use and build – and sell – for you. Thanks for the thought-provoking insights! Best wishes as you embark on this journey – hope you learn and share a lot!
I think if you are an experienced blogger, you probably don’t need to utilize a blogging network too much. Most likely because you’ve already built up a community around your blog. But, for beginners, a blogging network like BC can be a good way to learn about blogging, blogging styles and writing in general.
I also think that you can get connected with others who are discussing similar topics and learn how to stretch your own niche. I think your post provides a great alternative view to understanding the true purpose of a blogging network and pulls the “wool” away from your eyes.
Also, if you are properly promoting your blog, a network might just be a great way to connect with others you may not otherwise know in the blogosphere.
Otherwise, a great and insightful post…
Monica:
Sorry, this is gonna be a long one…
I’m a part of at least one of the same blog networks, including the syndicated network of which you spoke. To be fair, when I was first starting out with blogging, I was grateful to have found such a place (I contacted them), and still am for all I have learned and the connections I’ve made. These networks were useful in that it expanded my audience, challenged me to be honest with myself and my readers in my posts, and helped me to grow as a blogger — though I’ve always been a writer/journaler, blogging was a completely foreign concept to me.
I believe, for me, these networks have served their purpose. I’m now connected to some fascinating, intelligent people whom I may not have had the chance to otherwise meet. Yes, part of my recent successes has to do with my own blog and my own desire to connect, but I do believe that these networks have facilitated those relationships, and in that regard, I credit these networks.
However, I also believe that I’ve gotten out of it what I need to, and lately I’ve been questioning my role in these networks. I think that they are great in helping bloggers get a start, build a community, and, in most cases, provide some terrific information. However, what’s the next step? I think that they only bring you so far, and that you have to carry yourself the rest of the way.
I’m still a part of those networks because I enjoy the connections and the community I’ve built for myself through those networks; however, I’m starting to realize that, for me at least, it ends there. And maybe that’s the whole point of it — to connect. Maybe they’re not supposed to take you further. Maybe the rest is up to you.
Those are my preliminary thoughts. Now regarding your post:
1) “It is really easy to see what you want to see in blog networks. For example, you may think there must be some process to choosing the best content, when there is really preference given to certain members.”
This I have found to be true, and what I found to be the most frustrating. Of course I would love to see my name in lights, to be respected for my writing. I think that’s what anyone who joins a blog network wants, in the first place. But I also want to read relative content and quality writing. I can pinpoint a few posts and blogs who were chosen for awards and/or headliners whose content had me scratching my head for their relevancy, and yes, I’ll admit that I had been frustrated when I thought that my blog offered more relative insight and wasn’t recognized. However, that’s what happens in a network. I get it. I can only hope, in the future, that quality blogs/relative content is highlighted — less for name and more for what it brings to the table.
2) Blog traffic. This is especially why I think I’ve already gotten what I was looking for — and why I don’t perceive it bringing me any further. Your percentage is almost right on the ball. I initially had a high increase in blog traffic on my blog, but that’s because next to no one was reading it. Joining these networks was a chance to get my name out there, but as I formed new connections, met friends, and increased my visibility, I began to see traffic decreasing from the networks and exploding through other forms of social media (Twitter is still my greatest gain in blog traffic, but it’s wonderful because it has become less about traffic and more about maintaining my relationships with readers as people in another way).
The question you bring up is one I’ve debated for a number of months: whether or not to remain a member of these networks. For my personal/personal development blog, absolutely. The connections I’ve made have been invaluable from both a professional and personal standpoint, and I wouldn’t trade that for the world. However, with a new professional blog in the works, I’ll probably refrain. These networks have taught me so much, and through them, I’ve learned how to stand on my own two feet. But as they are limited in what they offer, I can also see them holding me back. I think, like anything else, you get what you can out of it, and move on if that’s what it takes.
Thanks for the post and the chance to voice my thoughts. I’ll be hopping over to your blog more often.
From my personal experience, a blog network (or any network, for that matter) can provide certain things to some people, but can’t make everyone happy all the time. For myself, I don’t know if I’ve gotten much (increase in readership, however, I’m honestly not that good of a writer. But I’ve certainly been exposed to a much better variety of writers, styles, and opinions than I otherwise would have found on my own.
I think, over time, that people either outgrow networks that they are in, or their goals change and those new goals don’t mesh with the network structure. If that’s the case, then moving on is good for both parties. Using BC as an example, it can provide (at least in the front end) an audience that may otherwise not find you, or won’t be able to determine your content from a quick browse of your own blog. But it doesn’t give much to a more established, potentially income-earning blogger.
Much like an NFL coach starts as a low-level assistant, rise in stature, and then gets a chance to run the team themselves (and the large contract that goes with it), the same can be said for bloggers. If you’re already a well-known commodity, then a network like BC isn’t needed. And as for what posts / writers get promoted, that’s more a sign of a good editor than anything else.
You’ve covered some great points Monica. As a Community Manager I struggle with this kind of stuff every day. Because believe it or not, part of Brazen’s overall goal is to make the Community a valuable place for its members. If that wasn’t true, I’d be out of a job.There are certainly tons of improvements we could make to the Community. And to Tiffany’s comment above, I think part of the answer involves continuing to hand over more control to our network. It started with profiles, and will hopefully continue with blog posts, comments, etc. We’re always looking to improve the experience for our users. And reading this post pumps me up to start bringing more value in this new year.
What I think is the most valuable part of any blogging community is its ability to help you network with other people. I’ve seen some great collaborations occur between community members, I even know a few people who got jobs. And for some people (as Raven points out) a blogging community can be a support network, for new bloggers to find inspiration or for established bloggers to reignite their passions.
I can’t speak for other communities, but on Brazen, we do our best to help all our bloggers meet their goals. Since we’re a small team, it’s impossible to reach out to every member individually, but when members come to us for help, we do our best to support them in any way we can.
Right on, Monica. I was quite close to doing a post a few weeks back to recommend bloggers out there, who rely partly on BC connections, to set them selves up for going solo if Brazen goes down the drain. But that had no place on my blog – theme wise – and also was just a kinda negative idea. You went about it in the right way and make some good points. That being said I may as well hang in there. My readership basically couldn’t get any lower!
Just a side note, but I have to say I’m impressed with the quality of discussion going on here. The fact is, blog networks are not the only organizations struggling with these types of issues right now. Newspapers and other websites are currently stuck in a paradigm-shifting idea about how to 1) make money and keep existing (advertising is taking its own course right now) 2) harness the power of a community for its own purposes 3) still add value to the very community they exist to serve and make sure there is not a mass exodus – to keep them coming back, finding unique value, and being engaged.
Think about MySpace for one example, and USAToday for another. So many thoughts on both of these, but I’ll move on and say I would extrapolate this issue out not just to blog networks that are exclusively blog networks, but to all websites struggling to answer these problems.
Have you ever thought about how much money Facebook makes just because of your activity on that site? Sure, you may not create content there, but your activity there inherently does nothing to benefit you but makes money for them. This realization can apply to all online communities, so I’m glad Ryan brought that issue up.
The ones that survive will be the ones that LISTEN to the problems, engage the community in finding solutions they want and need, and answer the issues – fast.
I still don’t really get Brazen Careerist, even though I’ve read anything and everything I could find about it. I’ve even read comments on Penelope’s blog hoping for a clarification of the business model. I enjoyed this post as well as the thoughtful discussion in the comments.
That said, I found your blog through Penelope Trunk and Brazen Careerist, and I’ve added you to my RSS feeder. I enjoy Brazen Careerist because as a young professional I have been introduced to other young professionals I would never have sought out by other means (facebook, etc). At least with Brazen Careerist you know that the people who are blogging are typically open to networking and receiving opportunities. I don’t facebook friend random people and try to spark up conversation, but here I am commenting on your blog.
Kudos for following your gut and doing what you think is right. I hope Brazen Careerist flourishes and the team is able to make the impact they desire.
I’m not going to be as lengthy as everyone else… I don’t have a ton of thought on this at the moment, but here’s a comment I literally got today on my blog:
“I saw this post because it was linked from your “sex is a distraction” article, which was linked from one of the blogs I read regularly.”
I’m still getting new readers from BC. Though, I admit, that I have begun to wonder at what point being syndicated takes away from your own website’s traffic. Something like 60% of my traffic comes from referring sites. Can’t beat that with a stick.
Seems to me that a good step that blog networks could take is reporting to its contributors how much traffic their content is getting. I requested this from BC at the end of last quarter when they asked for suggestions. This way, there would be transparency, at least to the hard “numbers” value that blog networks bring. Obviously this would not be easy and blog networks have little incentive to offer it… but I think it would help.
Also, to follow up on your response to my first comment (and thanks for responding!), I do not doubt that community managers don’t read every feed item every day. But just like I want to grab attention with my résumé in case someone actually looks at it, and then draw them in with compelling experience… so do I try to make my headlines attention-grabbing and my content interesting and unique. There’s no guarantee of fairness, but that fact alone encourages me to work that much harder!
Monica,
Thanks for your reply. I want to try to answer some of the comments you made…
I hadn’t before thought of blog networks working like social networking sites, but that’s a great comparison, and, for what I’ve found myself using a blog network for, it’s also spot on. But then it brings up the question — why were blogging networks created in the first place? Was it to serve as a place to gather content, solely? Or was it meant for discussion, contacting, and sharing of content? I ask because I really don’t know what the primary goal was, though with the networks I belong to, this seems to be the trend. In that regard, I think that absolutely they serve as a social networking site in their own right.
I don’t plan on leaving the ones I’m in yet because I’m still getting something out of them — which is cementing stronger connections and engaging in conversation. You might be right — it might be sentimentality, wanting to give the network another chance, but I think it’s more along the lines of the same reason why I’m still on Facebook and MySpace, though I rarely use it — it’s another avenue of connecting, and, in a way, increased visibility.
I think my situation is a bit different in that I’ll soon have two different blogs — one more personal/personal development, one professional. The fact is, those are two separate audiences. If I were maintaining one blog, I might be more inclined to reconsider belonging to a network, needing to weigh the pros and cons and its affect on my blog. However, as it stands, I’m able to take what I’ve learned from these networks and apply it to marketing and forming connections through my new blog. Basically, my personal blog — through the connections of these networks — has helped get me to where I can form connections on my own. In this respect, I’m moving on.
I think that a network needs to be mutually beneficial. When I find that I’m no longer engaged, that’s the time to cut the cord completely, so to speak. I think engagement is one answer to your question about staying power — the more involved you are, the more likely you are to see a return and thus hang around (I’m thinking Twitter).
Hey Monica, this is a fantastic post and I think you handled this issue extremely well and in a very fair way. Awesome job on creating a relevant and lively discussion. Another aspect that I think merits some discussion is that online networks have the ability to be less transparent than something that is offline, which is why they can get away with a lot of this. While it’s great that online networks connect people in different locations and time zones, often the people who make up the network don’t interact with each other or the network creators in-person. While online interactions can be quite genuine, there are limits on what they can achieve when you “meet” a person online. There’s something to be said about observing and talking to people “face-to-face.” It’s perhaps easier to hide stuff or not communicate fully when you’re e-mailing or “talking” to someone from behing a computer screen. The post and comments do a good job of examining the the pros and the cons of social networks. I guess it all comes down to what your goals are and to what extent you think a social network can help you meet them.
***To Monica***
In reference to a blogger moving on benefiting both parties, I think it’s a matter of short term and long term effects. In the short term, the network might lose a bit of traffic. But they (a) still have the archives, and (b) it gives them the opportunity to showcase other members and diversify their brand (or narrow it, depending).
Think of it this way: JohnnyBlogger becomes so well known that just about all of his posts are features on a network. It could be argued that the network gaining traffic due to his posts, but is losing traffic because people think the site has become too JohnnyBlogger focused. Not to mention, most fans have moved on to his site anyway. If one particular blogger has become large enough to overshadow the network as a whole, then I think the network suffers. Just my thought.
In terms of becoming a commodity in your niche, it comes down to knowing when to break free of a network. Too early, you may not have a following. Too late, then the network might be too intertwined with your brand. Do people outgrow social networks? Absolutely. I still have a MySpace, but I use it to contact certain people in an easier format. I use Facebook, but again, it’s only a tool that facilitates the conversation.
Monica - One reason I get annoyed with blog networks is because of the “anonymous” people who comment simply to be difficult. They play Devil’s Advocate with the sole intention of pissing someone off as opposed to having a conversation. It ruins the discussion and the post becomes a childish game of ”who can out-wit who.”
Keeping a conversation on your blog allows for a much healthier dialogue. (This post is a great example.)
And I really like how Susan and Andrew mentioned that you can “outgrow” a network. I’ve never thought of it that way… but it makes a lot of sense. I’m rarely on Facebook/Myspace anymore, but the time I spend on Twitter has skyrocketed.
I’m not ready to leave my blog networks yet… but seeing the transition from Facebook –> Blogging / Blog networks –> Twitter makes me wonder what my next step will be.
No offense to you Monica but the comments have seemed to eclipse the post a bit (which is a good thing of course, it means you’ve hit on something here). Very thoughtful post and comment.
As both a participant in and owner of a blog network, there are some definite negatives to participating in a blog network as a blogger, especially if it is a poor format. I think making it clear where content is coming from (including links both to the author’s website and original post) and keeping it intact is extremely important. I have obviously advised people who have asked me about SEO impact to really research it. I have been on a blog network for nine months and I haven’t seen any disparate impact in page ranking. That being said, my experience is not other people’s experience.
I think blog network owners should really position themselves as consumer content portals, not blog promotion portals. I think selling it to blog owners that the site is really designed to attract viewers (not bloggers) is smart and honest. I’ve told people that I’d be happy to add their site to our blog network but it probably isn’t going to be featured that often (if at all) because it doesn’t mesh with the site. For the consumer of content though, blog networks can be good. for them. For the HR people that come to my site, they like it because they like seeing everything there. They have favorite authors and such but they’d rather not deal with an RSS reader or go to 50 different sites.
I am fine with people participating one way or another. I think blog network owners have to think about bringing value in someway to their content providers though. If people start feeling like our blog network is not valuable anymore, what good is it for me to fight that unless I am willing to change or discontinue?
Fascinating discussion Monica.
It might not be an entirely accurate reference, but this reminds of when I started out coaching back in 2002 (heady days). Bunches of coaches would get together, all exicied that they could be more effective and have more effective businesses if they pooled their talents into a network organisation. It gave us all confidence, a sense of community and a sense of a larger contribution.
I joined a handful of these, each one promising a successful business by leveraging the networks and talents of each member.
It didn’t work, purely because a client wants buys a solution from a particular coach, not a package from an organisation (at least in personal coaching, things work a little differently in the corporate market). I was a little naive in joining these, but 7 years on the real value is in the connections I made and am still in touch with, and as Jarred pointed out – “in ideas and community and legitimacy and other fuzzier, subjective values”.
Sure, these weren’t online networks, but the parallel is that the networks I was a member of had no ROI, and no viable model of getting ROI over and above some pie in the sky numbers on a piece of paper. If there were concrete benefits (as Tiffany mentioned) – to the consumer as well as the contributor – then the network would have been a viable one.
Networks are only useful depending on where you are on the curve. If you’re climbing the professional curve you’ll find a professional network useful. If you’re at the top of that curve you might find it useful to find new talent, but you won’t be engaging with it in the same way. As Susan said, there comes a time when the networks have served their purpose, and then it’s up to you to go the rest of the way, or find another network that can facilitate your rise up the next curve.
That’s the trick I think. To be able to provide enough engagement, enough members and enough functionality to be able to respond to different levels of contributor and consumer — and to evolve that over time. The difficulty is that blogging networks are more vertical in scope where social media is more horizontal.The other element is us lot – humans. We’re hardwired to do the easy things that work — doing something difficult that doesn’t work soon gets tired, and we either look for ways to make it easier or move on entirely. If you’re not getting value (perceived or otherwise) from what you’re doing then you’ll move on. Of course, the value you get could be from adding value to the network or finding ways to make it more effective (a nod of my head to Ryan) rather than a more concrete ROI.
The human element relates to what I’ve been saying about the curve – what’s of value today might not be as valuable to you a year from now or even a month from now. That’s just as it needs to be.
Blog networks, like any network, should expect a churn of participants, because that’s the very nature of the resources they’re dealing with. Ryan’s got a tough job…
Monica Yes, I appreciate the boldness. You know, when people ask me about a topic or view, I warn them with this, “do you want me to be nice or tell you the truth?” You simply told it like it is! There are many points I want to comment on but for the sake of time, a short note on building a blog network around your site. I think people would see more returns from investments in trying to grow their own community and readership. I’ll have to come back later to offer more feedback, thanks for sharing!
-Miguel
Fantastic post Monica.
I was one of the first bloggers syndicated at Brazen Careerist (under a different name, my real one, which I’m now contractually not allowed to use online for reasons of high-profile litigation I and my law firm are involved in) and had myself (and my content) removed about 6 months ago. Regarding your point 4, I always felt like people who had a different voice actually had NO chance of being heard there, and that the network promoted homogeneity of thought and subject matter. And it was in line with this policy that there was the exclusive club of 6 or 7 bloggers who constantly had their posts on the frontpage because they were somehow in accord with BC’s homogenous and BEIGE vision, notwithstanding the authors’ mediocre writing styles or lack of originality of ideas.
Anyway, I’ll stop rambling now. Just wanted to say I wholeheartedly agree with you, and have not regretted removing my content from the various blog networks.
Great post! It is just this type of discussion that finally made me get off my ass and start blogging myself. I am new to this, although have been reading your blog for some time. I wanted to let you know that I admire your writing and decided to write a post over on my own newly-started blog outlining the recent discussion between you and Rebecca Thorman over at Modite. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks again for an insightful post on an issue where I originally only saw the benefits.
-Patrick
Monica, this is great stuff – thank you. I have so enjoyed reading all of the comments – you have built an amazing community. I have to laugh though, because after reading the entire post and all the comments, I thought to myself: “how did I find this post, anyway?” Sure enough, I followed my tracks and discovered that I found you through a post on a syndicator called Bizzy Women, which led me to a post on Modite, eventually leading me here. I have now subscribed to feeds from both you and Modite, so I guess sometimes syndication does work
I will say that I always click through to the original blogger’s site and leave comments there rather than leaving them on the syndicator’s site, but perhaps most people don’t do that. I look forward to reading more from you!
I’d say at first blush, I expected something more from the blog networks I’m a part of – but it quickly became apparent they are only as successful as you make them to be, and are only a small piece of whatever life pie you are trying to bake.
For me, blogging in general was never about becoming famous or making money. It was to say something. I think blogging, and being part of a network has exposed me to a wider variety of opinions, and perhaps a slightly larger volume than if I had just been a solo act. But I think the best thing it does is give me clarity and context. Sometime I’m absolutely baffled by why my peers are thinking and saying, and the blog is just a simple aggregator to filter than info through.
Dunno. I can’t see how blog a network’s negatives outweigh even the marginal benefits one may receive – once we get over the psychological disappointment that our name is not likely to be plastered in everyone’s minds any time soon because of it!
Keep writing – that’s the point I think.
Here’s a new service that helps split ad revenues among bloggers (though it is not [yet] based on performance, like pageviews and such): http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/01/16/set-up-your-own-blogging-network-and-split-adsense-revenues-with-fair-blogs/.
You’ve really nailed what has been bothering me for a while now – I’ve always gotten more value from joining smaller networks (or smaller groups within networks). The connections are more personal, conversations are easier to follow and I make more genuine connections. As the networks grow, (which they ultimately must do to make a profit) it’s hard to keep up. A person can only add so many new “friends” and keep genuine relationships. So the network outgrows the people who made it what it was, and eventually they go on to the next thing to try to get back what they had in the first place.It’s a tough situation, and I’m not sure how to solve it. I see the same with Twitter. Where once I would follow anyone who I found interesting, I’m finding it takes a lot more to get my attention for new followers. It becomes overwhelming.
You’ve hit on a very significant issue. Recently, I’ve begun to think that blog networks provide you with the same thing that a good resume letter provides–merely a contact–maybe. So the real question remains, for what do you want a network?
All the research–and there’s been a lot of impeccable research over the past ten years on social capital–pooh pooh technology networks.
Ferrazzi (Never Eat Alone), Ronald Burt (UChicago genius), and Wayne Baker emphasize the absolute necessity of face-to-face networking for opportunities, mentoring, and organizational insights.
If what you’re looking for is effective trustworthy mentoring, the most you’re liable to get from technology is a “possible contact.”
It seems that one key point to highlight here is that no network or community can honestly promise big rewards as a result of membership. The fact is, no matter how much traffic a site gets, the “trickle down” online isn’t scientific. It would be interesting to see a study on this topic…If blogging communities benefit their individual members and in what ways. As with everything career related, goals shift and change. For those seeking exposure and “membership,” communities are great. If a blogger has a specific goal regarding traffic and that need is not being met, the community is not a good choice. Certainly, no one wants to be involved in a community they believe to be taking advantage of them.All that said, I “found” many of the best Gen Y blogs I read (including your blog and many written by my fellow commentators) via BC. When it began, I was thrilled to have a place to go to find well-written, interesting commentary by smart bloggers – all in one place. I do wish they made it easier to follow individual bloggers. I think it’s gotten a bit better recently. The fact is, the bloggers I like, I now know where to find – even when they aren’t on BC’s “front page.”
Andrea, I laughed out loud with the “blog network that you dare
not name” throughout your comment. I didn’t name Brazen Careerist
specifically because I’m really not speaking of only BC. There are
literally hundreds of blog networks that use the syndication model or
allow bloggers to write for free in exchange for “promotion.” Some of
these include Damsels in Success, Mom Bloggers Club, Divine Caroline, and BlogHer.
They don’t all have the exact same model, but operate with the same
premise. (And I apologize for listing all women’s sites, but those were
the few I could come up with off the top of my head.)
I think you bring up a good point that a blog network can be a
resume builder, and probably many people view a blog network as a
larger brand than themselves that they can be associated with and piggy
back off of. I’ve thought about this concept a lot, and I have to
question whether a blog network really is appropriate for resume
building. First, you have to look at what kind of reputation the blog
network has, and consider that if you put a link on your resume there
is a good chance the potential employer will actually visit the site on
any given day. What are they going to see that day? Most likely they
will look at the front page – is the content they see going to help you
or hurt you?
Then, you have to look at whether the blog network would have
name recognition and brand value for the people you are applying with.
Resume builders are only as valuable as their foundations, and a resume
is largely a tool to namedrop, in addition to demonstrating your
achievements. If the job your applying for has nothing to do with
social media or writing or PR, I would question whether a blog network
is even relevant.
Personally, when I apply for jobs (as I’m doing now), I want to
be able to control what the person reviewing my resume sees. The easier
way to do that while still demonstrating my work is to keep the content
on my own site.
I do think you are right about the community effect, but I also
think you can meet people in your niche through bigger social networks,
like Twitter. So that’s my plan for now!
Teresa, your comment struck me in a few different ways.
One is that I think you’re right about how online networking
mirrors real-world networking. The implications of this revelation
could be a blog post in itself, especially given how traditional
marketing and media industries are trying to translate the old rules of
their game into the new ones.
Two is that you’ve touched on one of the main benefits I see to
still being part of a blog network. You found bloggers through one of
your blog networks, and at least in my case, you still read my personal
blog. That is a good reason for me to be part of a network, because I
have clearly gained a reader.
My question is whether that benefit outweighs the cost of being
part of the blog network, and whether we might have met through some
other online outlet, like Twitter, and still have read each others
blogs. I have no answer. In my experience, however, my blog growth was
much higher before I joined any blog networks, which makes me think
that I can market myself decently on my own. And I think everyone else
can too, which is why I want to try no blog networks and compare
results.
Jarred, I really appreciate this comment. I think you give a lot
of the same arguments that Leo Babauta gives for un-copywriting all his
work (I linked to it in the last paragraph I think). I did believe at
one time that since my blog is just for personal branding, it didn’t
hurt me to syndicate to as many blog networks as made sense. Perhaps
being an insider to the social media world and the Web 2.0 startup
world is what left the bitter taste in my mouth, once I realized how
inauthentic the whole thing was. And then I decided that I was doing
better marketing myself before the blog networks (gaining more
subscribers and getting more comments) and concluded that being a part
of blog networks must be hurting my blog growth rather than helping it.
In terms of your closing remarks, I agree with the two middle
points about community and exposure, which you backed up well
throughout your comment. There’s a flip-side to both, so people should
weigh the cons I’ve brought up as well as the pros you’ve mentioned.
I disagree with your legitimacy and moderator points.
I don’t feel that any blogger should use a blog network to get
legitimacy. Legitimacy for me comes from a community of people who want
to talk about the ideas I bring up on this blog, not a company who
posts my content on their site for their own gain. If the company goes
under, what happens to my legitimacy then? I think bloggers need to
establish legitimacy through guest posting and developing a community
rather than a blog network.
The latter “moderator” point about someone going through every
single blog post that gets submitted is just a complete misconception
people must have. Depending on the size of the blog network, an editor
could get hundreds of blog posts to judge per day. The chances of
him/her reading even half of those is unlikely for any blog network.
All blog networks will choose their front page content differently, but
I can guarantee that few blog networks are judging all submitted
material equally.
Tiffany, great points. You are right, that there are two camps
of bloggers – the ones who blog and monetize their sites and the ones
who blog for personal branding. The former should definitely not join a
blog network in my opinion. As for the latter, I still think it’s risky
to join a blog network for some of the reasons you mentioned.
I think I too have a big problem with the conversation-tracking
aspect of syndicating on other blogs. I dislike splitting comments with
another site and have seen my comment levels go way down, and I also
have trouble keeping track of how the conversation forms on various
sites. Conversations in the comments can form completely differently in
different communities.
I also have to point out that the reason a blog network would
strip out RSS feeds and links from a post is because it doesn’t align
with the blog network’s goals, which are to generate traffic and
comments and feed subscriptions on it’s own site so those can be
monetized.
I agree that while many of the comments have been about Brazen
Careerist (natural, because many people who read this blog are Gen
Y’ers), the problems illustrated are applicable to all blog networks,
and furthermore, many other forms of web content, including social
networks and traditional media outlets. At the same time, there is a
great need to organize content on the web. So there is a balance that
has to be met, and some companies will find a way to meet it. I have my
own thoughts on how that will be met but they are for another post.
Thanks for the comment, you brought up so many good points!
Raven, I appreciate the perspective of a newer blogger, and can
see how a network would benefit you in the early stages of blogging
when you are looking for an audience.
At the same time, when I started my blog I was able to build an
audience without any blog networks, by linking to other bloggers in my
niche, commenting on their sites, and offering to write guest posts for
their audiences. It worked pretty well for me, and for others like
Tiffany, in establishing a reader base for our blogs.
I would really urge all new bloggers to consider doing these
things rather than just joining up with a blog network right away. I
honestly do not know anyone who has become a top blogger in their niche
by joining a blog network. It’s just too difficult to thrust yourself
in the middle of a really competitive and large group and expect to
come out on top.
In fact, I am much more likely to read the blog of someone who
has commented on my site than someone in the same network as me, which
is why I’m adding your feed to my blog subscription service.
Susan, great comment. A lot of what you said echos Raven’s
sentiments about how networks are valuable to new bloggers, a
perspective I didn’t really see because I already had a blog going when
I joined the two I was in.
What I find interesting is that you say the network has served
it’s purpose, which is connecting. To me, this implies blog networks
are a lot like social networks in that aspect. They seem to lack the
part that keeps people coming back though, which larger social networks
like Twitter and Facebook seem to have. Right now I can’t really
pinpoint what that extra something is, because even with social
networks, my participation I’ve noticed comes and goes in spurts. I may
be really active one week and then ignore the whole thing the next.
But something that’s even more interesting is that even though
you think the networks have served their purpose you don’t plan on
leaving them. I think a lot of people feel sentimental about
social/blog networks, and maybe feel that they’ve invested time in them
and don’t want to see that go away, or don’t see a point to leaving.
I guess the deciding factor in your last question (whether to
stay on a blog network or leave it) is really more a question of
whether the blog network is doing damage to your blog growth and goals
or whether you are merely indifferent to the blog network. If you’re
indifferent, it might be easier to just stay with limited or less
participation. I think this is what most people end up doing, whether
to avoid confrontation or just because it’s simpler. I know this
happens on social networks too, which makes me wonder how valuable
membership numbers are to determining the value of a website to begin
with.
Andrew, I really enjoy your laid-back attitude to things. You
are absolutely right, that no blog network (and no company, and no
blog, and no piece of art, and no movie) could make everyone happy at
the same time. Your comment and a few before this are indicating a
trend: that people outgrow blog networks. On a broader level, is this
true for social networks too? My guess is probably. In my own
experience, I’ve certainly outgrown MySpace, and even Facebook to an
extent.
One thing that you mentioned that I don’t agree with is that
when a user outgrows a blog network it’s good for both parties to move
on. It’s really not good for the blog network, because as I mentioned
in the post, blog networks need members and traffic to be relevant.
Even if a member is inactive, their profile is still counted towards
the members number, which is one of the main indicators people use to
attach monetary values to any social or blog network.
A final thing that’s interesting about your comment: “If you’re
already a well-known commodity, then a network like BC isn’t needed.”
Wouldn’t it follow then that if you want to become a better known
commodity in your niche, a network isn’t needed?
Ryan, of course I was expecting this comment, and if I were working
at the company still I probably would have written it myself. I think
if anything BC and other blog networks have probably gotten some good,
honest feedback from this comment string. The true test of your
commitment to helping the BC community with their individual goals,
though, would be fixing the issues brought out from the blog post and
comments in a timely manner, even if it meant forsaking the company’s
goals, which are bound to conflict. I do think you mean what you say,
but the implementation, as you surely already know, is difficult. Good
luck!
Torbjorn, I do think that’s one of the caveats of using
social/blog networks, is that you don’t have control over your content.
It’s true that if you invest a lot of time in a company and then the
company has financial difficulties and goes under, all the time you’ve
invested on comments sort of disappears. No blogger should be putting
all their eggs in one basket.
I too feared that I was maybe writing too negatively, and I’m
surprised that the comments have been so constructive actually. But I
really do think this is an important conversation for bloggers to have
with themselves when considering joining a blog network, and I also
think some of the ideas here transcend to other online content outlets,
so if you are interested in “the future of the internet” as I am, it’s
a fascinating conversation
Tiffany, I agree with you on all accounts. The problems listed
).
here with blog networks are problems in all types of online media. And
we certainly do create content on Facebook, even if it’s not blog
content – so in that sense, we all work for Facebook (maybe put that on
your resume
Anyway, you’re right. Companies won’t be able to hide in the
future – the transparency of the internet will force (and has forced)
an emergence of customer service like we’ve never seen before.
Personally, I’m looking forward to it.
Erin, I really appreciate that you found me through Brazen
Careerist. That shows that people do use that particular blog network
to seek out individual users, even though the blog network isn’t
particularly conducive to singling out bloggers. I agree with you that
Facebook is not the place to find random people to start interacting
with.
The question is, where is the right place? For me, I think it’s
Twitter. I’ve experimented with that service for a month or so now and
found that people are incredibly open to interacting with strangers who
want to become online acquaintances or friends. Using Twitter, I am
confident that the network will stick around for awhile (making my time
investments to the network worth it), I can find a demographic who
would be interested in this blog, and I can develop a following fairly
easily. All of this, while controlling the major content I am putting
on the internet, which is my blog content. Who knows, someday I may
outgrow Twitter too, but for now I’m looking forward to the
possibilities.
Thanks for reading!
Holly, I think it’s really great that you’re still getting new
readers from a blog network you’re a member of. Apparently I am too,
which I didn’t realize at first. So that’s something to consider,
whether the readers you’re getting from the blog network outweigh the
costs of, say, getting indexed more in Google. For me, I still think
the answer is no, and that people will find my blog without the power
of a blog network behind me if I start marketing it better. I’m sure
the answer to that question varies from blog to blog, but I wish
someone would put out a study with some tangible conclusions!
I actually think you are a person whose blog would take off even
more on your own. You have such a great blog and such a unique voice. I
am definitely an avid reader!
I think that type of report would be fascinating, albeit an
organizational nightmare to generate. Having been somewhat privy to
that knowledge and having a decent idea of what those numbers might
look like for an individual blogger, I think releasing that type of
information could be both beneficial and detrimental to blog networks.
It really goes back to the question of whether you care that your
content is on your own site where you can control it and own it, or if
you are fine with another company profiting from your work in exchange
for some exposure. Great idea, I’ll be interested to see how that goes.
That’s a really interesting perspective. For the most part, I
think it’s great if inequity makes you work harder. I know sometimes
being a chick has made me work harder in male-dominated environments. I
still think, though, that working towards equity would be the end goal,
would it not? Just because we all know inequity exists in all facets of
life doesn’t mean we should be complacent and accepting of it.
Though you’re right about good headlines – those make you stand
out no matter where your content is in the blogosphere. (Or on a
resume.)
I think the premise behind blog networks is to aggregate content for some greater purpose. Maybe that purpose is a need readers have, maybe that purpose is a need the company has. For me, I just had to decide if the greater purpose was really helping me, or if it was just furthering others goals.
I agree with your engagement point. You really get out of it what you put in.
Jaclyn, I think you make a great point about the use of online connections. Something that annoys me is when people adamantly stick up for people they’ve “met” online. You really can’t know someone just from reading their blog or even talking to them on the phone once. I’ve met a lot of bloggers in person, and their online personalities don’t always match up with who they really are. I’m certainly not saying that anyone is lying about who they are on their blogs, but it’s a lot easier to present your best self online.
Andrew, you make some great points. It’s an interesting way to think of bloggers taking over the network. I guess no matter what, a network can only feature so many people at once, and bloggers leaving the network allows room for new bloggers to get featured.
But I still think a blog networks wants as many members as it can get. So while there are benefits to the readers of the blog networks when bloggers leave it, there is probably not a benefit to the actual blog network.
Andy, I hate the “anonymous” people too. I don’t think that can be blamed on a blog network, but I do think the concept of blog networks mean readers don’t get to know the individual writers as well. So people are more likely to be one-off readers and interpret something differently than the writer meant it. I also think when a commenter is responding to something on a blog network, there isn’t that personal aspect and commenters will write things they would never say in person. Finally, if you’re reading someone’s personal blog you’re there because you want to be, whereas if you’re reading a blog network there may be writers you wouldn’t normally read. Thanks for the comment!
Lance, I wholeheartedly agree with you that blog networks are beneficial to readers. Which is why I think some people would create a blog network – to deliver a new product to readers.
I guess my real issue is whether the blog network is trying to make money from their product. If the are, and they’re using my content to create their low-cost business model – I have a problem with that. If the blog network is just trying to organize content in one place, maybe that’s okay.
I’m not sure how your blog network works, but I do see the need for organizing professional content. I think you’re right, it depends on how the blog network positions itself and if they are honest about their purpose and what their business model is. And I do think that you should develop a “content provider” relationship with your bloggers. I think that makes it a lot more clear to bloggers that they are providing you a product, and they can better decide whether they want to provide that product for free, or what they want in exchange.
I really appreciate the comment Lance, since you own a blog network it was really insightful!
Steve, I really love this comment. I think your parallel between blog/online networks is spot on, and you echo a lot of what other people are saying about outgrowing networks.
The concept of a network having to churn participants fascinates me. It begs the question whether networks can get too big to be useful, too old to be engaging, etc. Are networks ever going to be a viable business model? A lot of what you’ve written, combined with the troubles Facebook and MySpace are having, makes me think networks aren’t good business models. I’m sure people will continue trying though!
Miguel, I like to tell it how I see it on this blog
. I think you’re right, though, it’s more beneficial to build a community around your own blog, and to be part of communities around other people’s blogs.
yes, I’ve aim to be intentional about joining other blog’s communitity- I respond to comments by other readers (along with the author of the post), if someone’s comment catches my eye, I might visit their blog and leave a comment and so forth.
Cameron, interesting take. I have to agree that a homogeneous network is really pointless when it comes to “personal branding.”
And I was startled when someone from a blog network (okay, it was Brazen Careerist again, enough diplomacy) emailed me to say he purposely tried to write “beige” posts in order to hit the front page, even though they didn’t go with his blog. My advice to anyone is if you can’t be yourself and get featured on the blog network, you are NOT going to build your own brand using the blog network’s connections or exposure or whatever they’re supposedly offering. He responded he’d probably be quitting soon.
I too don’t think I’ll regret this move. Creative control of my work is important to me, and I’m looking forward to seeing what I can do on my own to market my blog. Thanks for the insider comment!
Patrick, thanks for the comment! It’s always good to hear when people get inspired to join the conversation. For anyone who wants to read Patrick’s commentary, it’s here: http://patricksullivan.blogspot.com/2009/01/this-is-why-i-started-blogging.html
Virginia, I think you are the third or fourth person to say they found my blog through syndication. Totally ironic.
Even more ironic, this post was never about Brazen Careerist, but judging from the direction the conversation took I wouldn’t be surprised if people were flooding their inbox with requests to join the blog network. Which is a good thing, of course. I’m happy for them and hope the network remains prosperous so I’ll always have a place for them in my resume portfolio
.
Thanks for the comment, Virginia. I appreciate that you click through to leave comments on the original sites, and I added your blog to my feed reader.
I’ve actually met with groups from various blog networks in the past (this was actually how I met Monica and started reading this blog). It’s hard to deny the value there, but again, as groups grow and size becomes more important, it may become more difficult to manage meeting in person (at least when it comes to large groups). The rest is, of course, what you make of it.
Dan,
Amen. I love good research, especially when it comes from my alma mater (UChicago)
. I like doing online networking but it’s clear to me, especially in the job-hunt mode I’m in, that my local connections are worth so much more right now.
I think online networking will always have it’s place, but believe online networking has to get more localized to become useful for the average Joe who isn’t social-media obsessed, and may just be looking for a job or friends with similar interests.
Miriam,
I would love to see a study as well about blogging communities.
I think concerning BC you’re right – it is really annoying that you can’t follow actual blogs more easily. If they changed that part about their site I think it would be a lot more useful. It’s nice to use BC to find new bloggers – but in general the front page only has one or two posts per day that are actually interesting. I’ve taken to subscribing to a handful blogs (I say handful, probably like 20-30 though
) of bloggers who consistently put out good material and resonate with me personally.
Of course, to someone else, they might find a 20-30 different bloggers whom they resonate with… and that’s great. But realistically, no one is going to be interested in all 400 bloggers on BC (or however many they have now) and the lack of customization is a huge problem even as a reader and not a member.
This is a great point, because connections are so much more powerful when they are made on a local level as well as online. Thanks for the comment Allie!
Milena,
I think it’s funny that you read blogs to figure out what your peers are thinking. At times, it baffles me too because I feel so far removed from most people “my age.” I have a husband, a house, and a dog, I don’t live anywhere near my parents, and I plan to stick with my career rather than start a family anytime soon. My guess is you are in such a different place in your life because of events that have forced you to grow up… at least that’s how I feel sometimes. Thanks for sharing!
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