Monica, this is an awesome article. I am about to jump on a plane but I will give this write-up more thought and will be returning to share some thoughts this evening.
This is a fantastic post, and I’ve been thinking a lot about numbers 3, 4 and 5 for a while. You summed up my thoughts perfectly – now I don’t have to write about them.
I agree that getting married changes your perspective – very quickly. And, getting offline is key. After all, if all this social networking and blogging just keeps us in front of screens (instead of human faces), what’s the point? We’re all seeking meaning, and there’s a lot of meaning to be found in real world relationships.
Intriguing. Technically, my parents live with me, but I own the house – does that still count?
Yet, seriously, I enjoyed reading this post. And, while I’m not married, I can see your point about how more mature, grounded and steady Gen -Y bloggers are more interesting to read (and why wouldn’t they be?). I believe that taking yourself offline to network should be a given for most bloggers. Networking is too multifaceted to think that by using social media alone, networking will “take care of itself.”
Great post! I really do agree with you about the point on marriage. Gen Yers too often argue that marriage ruins your career and stops you from achieving success, but I think those arguments just don’t have merit. Especially coming from people who aren’t in serious relationships or who aren’t married. If a married person told me their marriage was holding them back career-wise, I’d accept that — but I don’t get why people who aren’t married at all are giving us this advice. It makes no sense as they don’t have personal experience.
If you are in a truly worthwhile relationship, your partner should be supporting you and your ambitions wholeheartedly, and you should be able to achieve your full potential in life with the help & support of your spouse. If you are in a relationship and that is holding you back, well then it’s the person that’s the problem. You’re not with the right person. I don’t think the institution of marriage or dating is the problem. The right person understands and more importantly, supports 100% your ambitions.
This is a really good post. I was agreeing with everything you wrote until your part about not living with your parents. There are many people who would completely disagree with you…especially when the economy is in the crapper like it is now. Living at home allows you to save a HUGE portion of your income that you’re not paying out in rent, enjoy ammentities of having a larger area that you may not in a place that you rent, enjoy family dinners when you want, still have freedom to come and go as you’d like, and many more. Living at home for a time period and saving your money is the most important part though. This can allow you to bypass renting an apartment, townhouse, house, room, etc and go straight into home ownership. It’s a great way to go if its an option for you. Now, granted, not everyone should live at home after graduating and those that do should not stay more than a year or two. But it gives you a great opportunity to save up and get on your feet the way that you want to when the chance comes and is right.
Monica, great post! I agree with everything. Working in a cubicle was an up and down experience, but was a great experience overall and one I recommend for everyone. I also echo that working from home kinda sucks. I’ve found that I actually get paid less. Working from home, I use a timer, and that timer stops for everything that is not actual work (getting a glass of water, lunch, personal calls, trip to the bathroom) so out of 7 hours of “work” you realize you will only get paid for like 5 of them. It was a shock the first time I used a timer. I support getting married, even thought I am not currently. Maybe if I stop asking my dates to list off 5 operas I would have a better chance.
You make valid points, but I want to point out that a long term cohabitation is LIKE a marriage, and even more so if you have kids. Not that I am anti-marriage but I think what would be more accurate is saying “long term relationship”.
Another point I want to make is that marriage to me, doesn’t change anything other than your name if you don’t have kids. I treat all my relationships seriously after the first trial year, as if I were married, and we do everything married couples do without being married. I think the real life-time commitment and stress of what you are perhaps calling “marriage” comes with having kids, married or not. Not with the actual marriage itself.. if that made sense?
It’s just that I think kids are a commitment for life. Marriage.. not so much. You cannot divorce children.
2. LIVING WITH PARENTS
I wholeheartedly agree with this.. except that if you DO live with your parents, the way I did for 8 months while I was on a project where they lived, you have to pay your way — we’re talking rent, food, and helping out around the house. Not sponging off them like a parasite.
3. CUBICLE
Agreed wholeheartedly. But I’m a bit of a workaholic, so being at home makes me more comfortable and I want to work longer than to be at work and always dream of coming home. I like working 10+ hours a day at home, because I can spread out that 8 hours instead of being chained somewhere 9-5 everyday, and then being let out of my cage. But I guess .. it’s not normal to work more at home.
4. PAY YOUR DUES
I agree with this. I worked for 2 years in a corporation, and then branched off on my own successfully. But I needed that 2 years and all of that knowledge about office politics, how the industry works.. education.. before leaving. If they had paid me more, I would have stayed for 5 years. *shrug* But then they screwed me so I left.
Great blog and article. Lots of food for thought. Am going to follow you now.
The part about paying your dues is great. People really don’t believe me when I say that to be exceptional at something, you need to do it over and over again. So even if you’re a great coder, you need to do many of the same things over and over again to be really great at it. Sure, you can reference documentation but you lose speed and flexibility. If you’ve built 10 e-commerce sites from scratch, are you going to tell me that the 11th one isn’t going to be implemented faster, better and have the ability to change more on the fly? The second part about marriage is probably more key to guy bloggers than gal bloggers, don’t you think? I think the key for that (regardless of gender) is that it almost automatically makes a person less selfish. Life becomes a question of “we” with a slew of little sacrifices every day. If you’re not thinking about how to get your own every second of the day, I think you will have better ideas and be more interesting.
Sometimes boomeranging back home is more of a financial decision than anything. I live in DC and it isn’t uncommon to meet people who are living with relatives, parents, in-laws, what have you when they first come out here. I’m sensitive to that having friends who are barely keeping up with obscene student loan payments. I agree with the cubicle point, office life has its drawbacks but after going out on my own I realized how much I missed growing with colleagues in the workplace and supporting each other as we moved up to bigger things. When you work from home, building a community like that is on you and it’s hard to do from your living room.
Thank you for writing this. As much as I am in many ways this stereotype, you’ve underscored the things I strive to distance myself from. Namely, the whining, self-indulgent and arrogant musings of my peers. I’m as tired of it as you are. And I sure as heck don’t want to be that kind of person.
I don’t deserve to work whatever hours I feel like. I don’t deserve to do whatever the hell I want just because I think I have talent or am under utilized at my job. I make an effort to surround myself with reality-check people. As a relatively creative, intelligent person, I have some good ideas that could be great ideas and ideas that just seem like they’re good at the time, but probably aren’t.
The flip side of this is rethinking the status quo – you aren’t telling people they have to subscribe to one way of thinking, you’re telling them not to disregard it entirely. While I agree with paying dues (there IS something to be gained from doing things we don’t always enjoy), I also like it that you didn’t shut people down about becoming entrepreneurs and doing their own thing. This isn’t a post saying “hey, forget it, it won’t happen, because you’re a dick,” it’s a post saying, “that could be a really good idea, but be conservative about it. Don’t bet the family farm on a whim and hope it all works out – it probably won’t, and if Aunt Em plus the tin man and the rest of your entourage are telling you it’s not a great plan, well, time to come home, Dorothy.”
I think that these tips aren’t just useful for making you a less annoying Gen Y blogger, but also serve to make you a better, more productive person overall. Getting off the computer is the big one (for me), because my fear is that the more Gen Y gets sucked into the computer, the less face time we’ll be making, with a negative result. The internet is fantastic, but the key here is balance, learning how to use online resources (like social networking) to enhance offline life.
Quick comment on the last point about not living with parents. I have to give a huge amen.
I get that a lot of people have to move back home right out of college, and I respect their decision to do it and save money. I had to do it, and I’m so thankful that I did because I now have a nice cushion just in case the worst-case-scenario hits.
But after a few months to a year [at most], it’s time to go. I lived with my parents for a year and a half, and while I’m thankful for what I saved, I’m still recovering from the sanity that was lost.
So, my advice: Move home if you have to, but get out as soon as possible. It’s not just about being embarrassed by your peers. It’s about not being able to challenge yourself like a true adult.
Monica, you hit the nail on the head with this post. While not as large (or annoying) as mommybloggers *shudder* the increasing pool of Gen Y bloggers who claim to be career experts has been growing at a worrisome rate. This wouldn’t be a bad thing if they weren’t all preaching their experiences and opinions as gospel. I’m 26, with a couple different jobs under my belt and an MBA. If I’m not at a point where I can offer suggestions and advice to others, then there shouldn’t be too many freshly minted 22 year olds who should be doing so. However I remember being 20, 21, and 22 very well — and at that point in my life I figured I knew everything too. How quickly found out that there’s a lot more to learning than just what you’re taught in school…
My favorite point of this article was your first one. The one thing I tell my friends when they hate their job is that they’ve got to “pay their dues.” No one walks in as the CEO. Many of my GenY peers don’t get that. For my first job I spent a year and some change as a production supervisor at a meat plant. Sure, it sucked — but my next employer liked the fact that I gutted it out. Now imagine how upset I get when I see that the idea of quitting your job after two weeks is being spread around as a good career move. “To each their own,” I say, but bad advice is bad advice. I’ll stop here as I don’t want to step on any more toes, but once again, great post.
Great post! Lately, I have been struggling with my own identity. At 27, am I really part of the twenty-set? Your post made me feel that perhaps – I am, but have been reading the wrong blogs for my goals and lifestyle.
The only note I will have for you is – please, enough people are getting married young because it’s something to do, or they want a party or whatever it is. At 27, I have lived with my boyfriend for about three years, and marriage is something that’s on the horizon – but I am glad I didn’t rush in. The idea of getting married at 22 or 23 is absolutely terrifying.
I agree with everything you’ve said, however, I am biased since I’ve actually done those things. I moved out on my own, had a cubicle job (still do, although it’s now an office with a window and a door) always focused more on real-life networking that social media, and I’m married with a child.
The “live at home” argument has always seemed selfish to me, because those that make it (such as Chris did above) talk about the savings, larger space, eating at home, and coming and going as you please. That’s pretty one-sided, since it requires your family to basically foot the bill while you have fun. While there are certain situations where it makes sense (tough job market, moving, etc), it shouldn’t be anything other than a short-term situation that involves paying rent and helping out.
Interesting post. I agree with some of what you say but have an opposing opinion on others fwiw.
Enjoy your cubicle.
I think routine is ok but in regards to travel, while it can become tiresome, I think Gen Yer’s should embrace traveling and get that experience before commitments such as family makes it impossible or difficult.
Do not live with your parents!
Economical, personal, or cultural reasons can make living with your parent the most ideal situation. I think there are a lot other better criteria for judging whether another is an “adult” or not.
There’s a lot to think about here. I completely agree with paying your dues, but not necessarily with, “So stay at your job, even if you hate it and feel that your talents extend way beyond the job description.” If it’s a talents issue, sure, get over it, but if you truly hate your job to the point that it makes you miserable… well then crappy or economy or not life is too short and I for one won’t bail on you if you quit.
That said, you better be looking for something in the mean time and do you damnedest to ensure that your next job is a ‘better fit,’ prior to taking it.
Most of the people have touched on the living with your parents issue to the point that I’m not sure I have much else to add. I have friends making 50K+ living with their families. Some don’t have any debt. Others have private school loans up to their eyes. Some are (were) in between jobs. Some pay rent. I try not to judge anyone’s circumstances because usually I don’t know the whole story. Maybe it’s such commonplace (in big cities? in the South where family-time is -really- emphasized?), but I don’t think twice about it. That said, am going to live at home with my parents one day? I doubt it, not for more than a couple of months. I could see it transitioning from somewhere to my own consulting business gig (one of these days), and staying at home just to ensure it’s what I want to do (moving expenses are expensive.)
Finally, I agree that there are a TON of Gen Y bloggers that are pontificating all kinds of bullshit, the value few and far between. That’s okay with me to because I just won’t read it. Some of them genuinely believe they’re providing this ‘amazing advice,’ and Lance is welcome to bring them back to reality for me, but others are just trying to navigate their space, and their lives.
No, they don’t have the experience to tell me how to confront my boss, how to ask for a raise/vacation, how to become more efficient, etc. They can tell me what ways may have worked for them, or what they THINK may work for them. I’ll take that information (should I choose to read past the headline) and glean any insight there is, and go on about my business with the assumption that they put that down on paper because it helped them think about the challenges they’re currently encountering in the workplace. SOMETIMES I even suspect that leaving a comment helping them ‘re-evaluate’ their thoughts will help them delve deeper (after all the resistance and bullshit comments they try to fight back with of course.)
Am I even making sense anymore? I think what I’m getting at is that all of your points are valid, and Gen Y bloggers should take them to heart, but the rest of us shouldn’t sit atop our thrones casting stones and telling them they suck either. To be clear you haven’t done this (neither did Charlie, and neither does Lance), you illustrated how they can start providing value — and I think that’s what most of us are trying to do.
Thank you! I agree with almost everything in this post.
1. When I started working at my job, I was freaked out about having such a new constraint on my time. And i thought I would never get into it. And then I did. And now I’m having a lot of fun. Gen Y, don’t confuse the normal transition between college and working for not liking your job. Stick with it for at least half a year, get to know the job, get to know the people, establish yourself as trustworthy. Before you know it, you will be given more responsibility, which will make you feel better about yourself and like your job better.
3. Yes, working from home sucks. You become isolated, your networks shrinks. At the office, you have no choice but to work. Work ethic is contagious. And you get constant interaction with people. That is so important! Finally, routine is really great, especially when you make the big jump from college to a full-time job.
5. Tweeting back and forth does not a network make! Unless you actually make the jump from Twitter to real life. For example, I had breakfast with Jenny Blake this past weekend. She read my blog, I read hers, we tweeted back and forth a few times and then took our connection offline. Because that is what it is all about!
6. Yes, please do not live with your parents unless you are in a dire financial situation! Becoming independent as fast as you can in your early twenties is priceless. Don’t stifle that independence and personal growth by moving back to a comfort zone. And you will never learn to manage your finances while you still live with your parents.
Excellent post! It made me very happy when I read it this morning.
I suspect that in the end, many of the best gen y bloggers will be those that waited until their 30s before they started blogging regularly and getting an audience. Today, those people are virtually invisible online because they are busy learning and producing.
A friend of mine runs a million dollar business, and he’s not on Twitter and he doesn’t blog. Will he join “the conversation” one day? Probably so, and when he does, he will have abundant experiences and insights to share.I think that’s the rule, not the exception, for what will ultimately make for a great blogger, but we won’t see that played out for several years when those voices kick in and bump aside (or rather simply overshadow) the less substantive bloggers and personalities. At the moment, there is a vocal minority of first-movers who have gained attention by tossing out clever articulations of naive or simplistic opinions. The popularity contest effect kicks in, and people want to be friends with the ones who get the buzz and controversy going. A clique is born centered around getting attention, congratulating one another, and validating one another.
Are there great gen y bloggers writing today? Yes. Do some of the great bloggers have large audiences? Yes.
But not everyone with an audience today is producing great content. Many of them just have the time and the desire to make noise and get attention, and in due time, those audiences will grow bored and migrate toward content of greater substance.
I liked this post, but I don’t quite see how it’s full of Gen Y stereotypes. Furthermore, I can’t imagine that getting married is the vehicle to maturity. It’s one way, but in a lot of situations, marrying young is actually a very immature decision. Marriage is romanticized and can lead to some serious consequences down the road when people who are 22, 23 realize that, weird, they didn’t know exactly what they wanted for the rest of their lives. To each their own, if you want to get married young, go for it. But, I’m not on board that it’s something I would promote or say is a conduit for maturity. And, you’re right – working from home is tough, but working a terrible job making zero money is bad, too. Some people can make it work, others can’t. Some people like a cubicle, others don’t. And, some people want consistency and routine, while others don’t thrive in that environment, no matter what the studies say. It’s all about preference – and I find that this post doesn’t leave too much room for people who don’t want to follow this path.
You’re right about blogging being something of an art, and I don’t think everyone with useful content will be able to translate that into something nteresting that gathers an audience. But my main point is that of the potential topics, only a few are viable options right now for Gen Y. Few of our generation can write about parenting or being a VC or a pastor or a best-selling author or having cancer or being CEO of a public company or being much of an expert at anything.
Our generation’s Tom Peters is probably climbing the ranks of IBM right now and doing more listening than talking and more working than social networking.
As an aside, it strikes me as funny that discussions of best gen y bloggers regularly omit A-listers that happen to be Gen Y like Randall Munroe and Pete Cashmore.
Or less well-known but brilliant bloggers like Clay Hebert and Richard Millington. I think that’s probably because there are two different approaches and mindsets to blogging: 1) I want to win the attention and respect of other gen y bloggers and to be popular 2) I want to go head to head with the very best in the world in my chosen field.
Randall is often funnier to me (admittedly it’s geek humor) than Scott Adams and makes a full-time living off of his comic and blog. Richard is genuinely respected by the senior members of his chosen profession and has used that reputation to make a living.
Rather than trying to be the Penelope Trunk of Gen Y or the Gary Vaynerchuk of the next generation, the real accomplishments is to start showing up on ‘Best Bloggers’ lists, without generational qualifications. After all, if you claim to be the equal of your seniors, why are they the ones with viable businesses and vastly more popular blogs?
That last question is a tongue-in-cheek, but I think it would do most of us well to aim higher and not settle for being the big fish in a pond splashing around in hopes of being noticed.
And I don’t think I’ve got it all figured out, by the way. I count myself as a member of the group I’m poking in this comment. I’ve been flirting with putting these thoughts into words for a while, and I guess I just got in the mood.
Good grief. Failed again to format my comment and with ridiculous mark-up in it as a bonus now. Monica, could you help me out with the formatting to make that legible and get rid of the <p>s along with this comment?
Monica, I strongly agree with you. The stereotype is narrow and provincial in nature, so I appreciate the Gen Y bloggers who don’t always fit the mold.
I strongly believe in paying my dues and I think that honoring your age, who you are and your experience at our young(ish) age is important. I’m not saying put your head down and don’t speak up, but I think everyone has to pay their dues. I even remember a few years ago as an intern being slightly frustrated but I told myself, this experience is getting you somewhere. You’re learning and paying your dues. You don’t become a CEO or run your own company overnight. I have an interesting thought about those who still live at home with their parents and that is, it can’t last for more than three months then I believe you’re really living off of them. I see the interim (between grad school, financial bind, between jobs, before/after travel) but if you really want to do something and make it happen on your own, don’t live with your rents. I think it says you can handle the challenges, versus being comfortable at home.
I want to say that, for the most part, I agree with at least some of the things you have to say here. I do think that, generally speaking, people should pay their dues, take criticism gracefully, and even get off your computer (however little I do that myself.) That being said, I think a lot of the other things you had to say–about living with parents and about getting married, in particular–were incredibly judgmental and not necessarily based on reality. I want to disclaim this by saying that I live 2,000 miles from my parents (independently) and am in a serious relationship with someone I plan on marrying, so I don’t want you to think this is coming from a defensive place.
A lot of people move back home for financial reasons or because it’s part of their culture. I don’t necessarily think this is a sign of lack of maturity. I know very few young people these days who move back home with mom and dad expecting a free ride. Most of my acquaintance who have done so have jobs, contribute financially, share household responsibilities, and are doing so usually because of some combination of low-paying job (but in a field they love), student loan payments, and a desire to save for a home of their own. I think by automatically attaching the stigma of “failure” to anyone who moves back home is relying on stereotypes rather than looking at the reality. I’m not arguing there aren’t people who use their parents as a free ride…but lighten up on the judgment. I think many of the people who do move back home struggle enough with their own misgivings about being seen as people who failed to grow up without complete strangers who do not understand their situation, or even care to understand their situation, piling on.
And as for marriage…getting married rarely gives a person a golden ticket to mature, responsible, self-aware adulthood. Can marriage force you to change your perspective? Yes, it can. But it doesn’t always for everyone. I also don’t think marriage makes you more insightful or more interesting. I’ve read way too many boring, badly written newly wed blogs to believe this is any more than your personal conviction that you yourself gained insight after getting married. Just like I’ve read way too many brilliant blogs by single people to believe that you have to be married to be interesting or insightful. I do think that you probably find blogs by the recently wedded more interesting, since they are probably going through a lot of the same things you do. I think it’s important, though, not to conflate your preference for reading material with what everyone likes. While I read some distaste for the mommy bloggers in your comments, I guarantee you they probably feel the same way about all the newly wed bloggers that you do about the single bloggers.
Regardless, there are many reasons why people don’t get married that have nothing to do with maturity. They haven’t met the right person. They are more focused on their education or career. They would like more time to see the world on their own. Maybe they just want some time to prove they can be completely independent. While arguing that marriage in general is a bad thing is unwise, arguing that marriage would be a bad thing for you at a particular time or place in your life is just the opposite. Again, don’t be so quick to attach judgment about a person’s maturity level to a social rite of passage. To be honest, this particular post came off as judgmental and, I hate to say this, unbelievably self-absorbed. The assumption that because you have done these things and feel you have been successful in part because of these things must mean that everyone else should do them, too–and anyone who doesn’t has clearly failed to grow up–made it very hard to take the rest of the advice, which was on the whole pretty good, seriously. Your tendency to conflate your opinion with everyone else’s opinion is also completely grating, and betrays the worst of all the Gen Y stereotypes: the belief that the world revolves around you. When someone argues that marriage has made them more self-aware, but then fails to recognize that their opinion is by no means universal or even in the majority…
I honestly almost wrote off your entire blog (not just this post) before reading any further than the first two paragraphs.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Marriage definitely changes your perspective. It’s important to wait until you’re ready, of course. I am also one of the people who probably spends too much time on the computer. But I realized that the most important people I meet, particularly in my area, tend to be at networking events. One of my new goals is to purposefully integrate professional networking events into my life – one or two a week if possible. I’m a firm believer that a few minutes of face time can make a greater impact than a blog post on it’s own.
That’s such an interesting setup! Congratulations on owning a house and supporting your parents.
I think there are many ways to gain maturity besides marriage, but marriage is one route because it’s so difficult to create a life with another person, even when you love them. Marriage complicates career and life decisions, which makes the problems more interesting to write about.
We all want to think we’re great networkers offline, but I have to wonder. I get too caught up in social media sometimes. And I’m sure I’ve missed opportunities as a result. So I hope that point serves as a reminder to get out there and network in person.
Exactly. That’s such an eloquent way of putting it. I get very frustrated by people who criticize young marriages when they themselves are not married. Marriage is obviously a personal decision and if you find the right person it can be the right decision for you and your career.
I think this could come from the fact that, even if you have a wonderful supportive spouse, your career options can be limited geographically or financially. I’m not married yet, and this is already something I’ve come up against. I moved to Oregon so that my boyfriend could go to school here, even if it’s not somewhere I particularly want to be. And I’m sticking with a high-paying job I’m not very interested in because for now, I’m the primary breadwinner and can’t afford to take a pay cut. My boyfriend has been very supportive, very encouraging, and yet…for now, this is the right decision for us, even if it’s not necessarily the best thing for me or my career. I think the argument that you need to be married to understand some of the challenges or downsides of marriage is at least partly incorrect. People who are just starting out in their careers and who would prefer to focus on their careers are probably absolutely correct when they state that now is not the time for them to get married. Marriage can be limiting, especially if you work long hours or need to move across the country. I don’t think that’s a reflection of their maturity, either. I think it’s just a reflection of where people place their priorities. If your priority isn’t relationships or starting a family, you shouldn’t focus your time and attention there, regardless of societal pressures.
Very good points. I was hesitant to write about not living with your parents because I think there are many circumstances where living with parents can help a Gen Y’er. Like the one you mentioned. It’s really up to the person to decide when they are doing something to reach a goal vs. when they are just leaching off their parents.
I know a guy who was 26 and moved back in with his parents for a year. But he did it to save money for a house and help his family (by paying rent). I also know a girl who could not get a job after college in her major, but moved out anyway to a cheaper city and gets by just fine with a waitress job. I really admire her for a) not thinking waitress jobs are below her, and b) continuing to pursue a job that relates to her major, but doing it on her own dime.
There are going to be circumstances when moving back in with parents makes sense, but the majority of Gen Y’ers can make other trade-offs that still allow them to be independent after college. It may mean downsizing and cutting out expensive purchases, but it can be done. Thank you for the comment!
Thanks for sharing the tip about the timer! I think I’ll have to use that to judge my productivity at home. I do have an office space that I go to sometimes to get work done, but by and large it is easy to get distracted by the dogs, phone calls, the TV, and other internet surfing.
Good point about marriage. I used the term marriage but I think most long-term relationships qualify and essentially can serve the same purpose, depending on the people in the relationship. I actually think kids is probably the ultimate lifestyle change that can help young people become more mature. I don’t have kids yet, but I know once we start a family I’m going to have to grow up all over again
Great approaches you mentioned in your other points. I worked 2.5 years in a corporation as well. It probably wasn’t the longest I could have stayed either. I am glad to be out now, but I do think those first 2.5 years were a great learning experience.
I think everyone should try a timer (I use timestamp. It’s free and I can print off reports, which working for law firms is an important feature). It really shows you how much time you spend not working.
In response to the part about living at home, I agree that it shouldn’t be done if people are just going to be lazy and mooch off their parts. However, there are circumstances when it is justified. I live at home now. Originally I moved home because I was trying to be a dancer in So Cal where the cost of living is rediculous. I couldn’t make it happen on what I was making as a dancer and working odd jobs. Also, living at home gave me a 6 mile round trip commute to the dance studio. I am now not dancing, but no point in moving out when I know that I am going to law school in a little over a year. Might as well stay and save up for the big expense looming in my futere.
So, should I lower my expectations or continue beliving that some single guy out there knows his operas?
I’ve definitely realized how important paying your dues is. I agree that you need at least a few years of doing something repeatedly to become an expert at what you do. You can expedite the process by blogging, doing side work and part-time jobs – but the number of hours you need to work at something to get good remains the same.
I don’t know whether the marriage point applies more to guys or girls. Personally, I was very selfish before I got married, and still have to take a step back and consider what my husband wants and figure out how we can meet in the middle. Marriage isn’t a one-time fix, it’s a process and you can always work at becoming a better spouse.
Thanks for the comment! I always love to hear your thoughts on these topics.
It sounds like you’re on a good path and have weighed the trade-offs for living with your parents. I definitely think there are circumstances that living with your parents works.
I’m confident there are guys who love opera out there . If it’s important to you don’t compromise!
I think it must be very common in large cities, just because the cost of living is ridiculous most of the time! Office life did have it’s drawbacks, but I think most people do not actually want to work from home, they just want more flexible work schedules. That is usually attainable in the corporate environment. And, of course – I think there are rules for a reason sometimes. Because, really, like you said, working from home forces you to build a community on your own, and that takes up a lot of time. Which can make you feel like you’re being productive when maybe you are not getting enough work done for the company.
Thanks so much for the comment. I’m definitely not against entrepreneurship. I just see some people taking it on too early, when they don’t have the maturity to match the work. Love your Wizard of Oz reference And I agree about distancing yourself from these stereotypes – unfortunately that sometimes means distancing yourself from being a Gen Y blogger to begin with.
That’s probably true. I think it’s most applicable to Gen Y just because some more recent graduates seem like they know everything. (There are tons of great bloggers who are graduating who don’t act like that too though.)
Interesting perspective. I think the emotional insanity would be enough of a reason for me to not move in with my parents. Now that I’m married it will pretty much never be an option for my husband and I. So it’s definitely hard to relate to, but it’s good to hear from someone who’s been there!
I agree that we should always distinguish between a difference of opinion and plain bad advice or a wrong answer. I don’t understand why some people continue to support their arguments with illogical, radical conclusions, long after everyone else has explained to them where the arguments have flaws. Blogging is not about always being right; it’s about the conversation, which should ultimately lead to insight.
I hope you’ll stick around. I think there’s a gap in the twenty-set right now. Maybe I just see it that way because I’m getting old
Regarding marriage, I actually got married at 22. I think it’s a personal decision. I know people who got married in high school and are still together, with no kids and very successful careers. I know 40-somethings who got married in their 30′s and tell me “I waited – it didn’t help” while waving their divorce papers on their blogs.
No matter what age you get married, it will be a huge lifestyle change. Same as kids. Perhaps it’s better to wait, statistically, but sometimes you just meet the right person when you’re young too. Thanks for the comment!
Sorry – I realize now that it looks like I made a blanket judgment on all young marriages. That was not my intention. I am just saying – career choices can be done. And so can marriages, but I would hate to see anyone rush into a marriage just to check something off a list.
Yeah, I’m pretty biased too, obviously. Because I’ve done all these things too.
I agree with the “Live at home” argument. But I’m biased. I never moved home after college and can’t imagine why anyone would. None of my friends really moved home either. And it’s not like I didn’t struggle my first year out of college with paying bills, but I cut out all social activities for 6 months and saved that money for a down payment on a house. And yeah, it was hard, but I’m very proud of “making it.”
I tend to think there are probably trade-offs that Gen Y doesn’t want to deal with. Like giving up a hefty cell phone bill or cable TV or drinks with friends every weekend. I know I shouldn’t judge and this doesn’t apply to everyone. But I can’t help theorizing that it applies to some people, and I have to question what that really teaches you about life.
Those are fair points. I was really just talking about traveling for work, ie: consultants.
In terms of traveling after graduation, I mean, maybe. I don’t think it’s a horrible path to take, but it doesn’t really help your career. Unless you are doing the Peace Corp or something I have to question whether an employer will see the value in it. It’s one thing to take a job or internship abroad, it’s another to ditch responsibility and take a road trip across the country.
In terms of living with your parents, maybe it’s just not for me. I think it’s really weird unless you have a unique situation. It’s definitely not a determinant in whether you are “adult” or not (I don’t think I said that?) but it can help Gen Y put off the real world.
Awesome comment. You gave me a lot to think about.
In the end, you’re right. It’s not nice or appropriate to sit back and tell other people they suck. And I’ve definitely felt like I leave comments to help people re-evaluate their thinking and they take it the wrong way. And it’s not even my place to judge what is valuable and what is not; just what’s valuable to me. Maybe that’s the take-away – let others do what they want and just stop reading.
I’m not saying you’re wrong by any means. Marriage is working out for me so far, but who knows? I hope no one would take the advice to get married literally; my hope is actually that people who aren’t in serious relationships can stop writing about how stupid marriage is for anyone in Gen Y who wants a good career. Those posts annoy me
For me, maturity has been all about trade-offs. Or more specifically, giving up things I’d “rather” do for things I “need” to do. I still think back to my parents, who got married at 21 and had 3 kids by 30. They certainly put aside their own wants for the benefit of us. Now they are in their late 50′s and get to do the things others have mentioned, such as travel.
I wholeheartedly agree with your first point. Many Gen Y bloggers think they “hate” their jobs when really they just “hate” having deal with adulthood. Going from college to the real world sucks! That transition was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever made in my life. Also agree with not truly learning how to manage your finances (and moreso, your risk in general) until you move out of the ‘rents house. Thanks for the comment!
Your comment made me think a lot about this idea last night. Your point is insightful. I do agree that there are many bloggers who have large audiences who seemingly don’t produce great content.
I also wonder if maybe that content just doesn’t resonate with me, like what Ryan Stephens said.
The second question I have is whether what you said about people who are not online now having more to contribute later. I think that blogging and especially building an audience is part-art. I know tons of people who are awesome and experienced offline. CEOs, people working on cutting edge tech, etc. They also have blogs that they don’t update, and their blog posts that are there are boring. And honestly, I don’t read their blogs, because they’re only interesting in person.
I know these people have a lot to offer – but I have to wonder if blogging will ever be the right medium for them to share those things. If it is, wouldn’t they be online now? Blogging isn’t very new. And Twitter is going more mainstream too.
This isn’t to say there won’t ever be new players in the blogosphere – there are new players coming out of the woodwork every day. But I think people with large audiences have probably gotten there by resonating with their audience. That doesn’t mean they’re the best, just that they are good bloggers and good at marketing themselves.
Good blog topic. I’d be interested in a separate post on this topic.
The Gen Y stereotypes I thought of were:
1. Gen Y doesn’t want to pay dues
2. Gen Y knows everything
3. Gen Y wants to go into entrepreneurship rather than work in corporate
4. Gen Y waits to get married
5. Gen Y makes connections on the internet
6. Gen Y moves back home after graduation
There are of course a ton of other Gen Y stereotypes I left out.
Regarding your point about marriage, people who get married at all ages get divorced, not just people who marry young. Getting married at any age is a bad idea if you don’t know what you want. In my experience, most young people who aren’t married have not found the right person. If you find the right person when you are 20 you end up getting married young – that’s just life. And statistically, people who live together for a long time before marriage are more likely to get divorced.
I agree with you that marriage is not the only vehicle for maturity.
I also agree that working a terrible job making no money is bad too. There’s a trade-off, of course, for any job.
And I agree that it’s all about preference in the end, and that people should find their own path because life is not as simple as we lay it out in blog posts. But I sometimes think that argument is a cop-out too, because you can always argue that people have different preferences, but that’s kind of like saying “let’s agree to disagree” without bringing forth the pros and cons first.
I tend to learn more when people bring forth other viewpoints that challenge my thinking, even if they are just playing devil’s advocate. It either forces me to defend my points with better arguments, or it causes me to change my opinion (which is actually more exciting for me ).
I see what you’re saying. Great points. You are right that most of us don’t have much to talk about and kind of end up talking about ourselves or generational issues or what we as Gen Y want. Personally, I adore Pete Cashmore and admire Richard Millington and even Ramit Sethi, whom you didn’t mention. I agree that most people don’t think of them as Gen Y bloggers. I don’t. But that’s probably because of their mainstream popularity and because they don’t write about Gen Y topics.
I think when people have those “Top Gen Y bloggers” lists they usually do just want other Gen Y bloggers to like them. (I actually can’t remember if I’ve written one of these posts, but I’m probably guilty of it too.) I also think people see the Brazen Careerist community as the only source for Gen Y bloggers. It’s an incestuous pool of linking and conversing. Which I maybe shouldn’t say, because I’ve contributed so much to that community’s success and still sometimes participate in the linking and conversing.
I think many Gen Y bloggers also confuse the benefits of blogging. We write about our opinions mostly, or how to manage our careers. But the true benefit of blogging from the career perspective is to write about topics within your chosen field, and become an expert on them. So many people write about how to manage a career when they are not looking to become a career coach or an HR professional – so they can’t really get on the “Best Bloggers” lists because nobody takes them seriously. And I’ve noticed that a ton of Gen Y bloggers are now creating a separate blog to become experts on a topic that’s not Gen Y centric.
I think there is a lot of hope for Gen Y bloggers but we’ve all got to get away from the “Gen Y in the ___________” topic. Fill in the blank with workplace, community, environment, media – it’s all the same at the end of the day.
(PS. I fully include myself in the group that needs to get away from these topics )
I’m a big fan of paying your dues. To be honest, I probably wasn’t when I had just graduated. But now I recognize the importance of starting at the bottom and working your way up. Aside from gaining experience, things tend to taste sweeter when you know you’ve worked hard for them.
I completely agree that most people who live at home too long after graduation get too comfortable. There’s the possibility of complacency in a job search or even just a job. Sometimes having bills to pay lights a fire, and working through that burn ultimately makes you stronger, more independent, and more resilient.
Thanks for the second comment. Don’t take what I wrote here too literally. It’s written in absolutes to demonstrate points, not to serve as a rulebook for everyone to live their lives by.
I am cognizant of the fact that this post is probably judgmental (yes – I’ll admit that – it’s halfway to a rant after all), that preference always plays a part in decisions, and that there will always be exceptions to every rule. But as a whole, I stand by my points. And of course, my points will always reflect my preferences, no matter what the topic is.
Good points. I conceded in earlier comments as well that long-term relationships probably have similar effects to marriage. The one caveat I would add to that is marriage truly does force you to work through the relationship in a way that I don’t see with a live-in arrangement. There were many times that I wanted to reconsider my marriage in the first couple years, but we worked through it because the commitment is for a lifetime. I think if we weren’t married, we may not have been able to work past some of those problems we were confronted with because a live-in arrangement makes it a lot easier to give up.
Also, I agree that marriage isn’t the only way to gain maturity, but I do think it’s a reflection of maturity because it takes maturity to make that commitment.
Monica O'Brien is the Director of Digital at Fizz and author of the book Social Pollination, which helps businesses leverage social media for crazy growth!
Monica O'Brien is the Director of Digital at Fizz and author of the book Social Pollination, which helps businesses leverage social media for crazy growth!
{ 67 comments… read them below or add one }
Monica, this is an awesome article. I am about to jump on a plane but I will give this write-up more thought and will be returning to share some thoughts this evening.
This is a fantastic post, and I’ve been thinking a lot about numbers 3, 4 and 5 for a while. You summed up my thoughts perfectly – now I don’t have to write about them.
I agree that getting married changes your perspective – very quickly. And, getting offline is key. After all, if all this social networking and blogging just keeps us in front of screens (instead of human faces), what’s the point? We’re all seeking meaning, and there’s a lot of meaning to be found in real world relationships.
Intriguing. Technically, my parents live with me, but I own the house – does that still count?
Yet, seriously, I enjoyed reading this post. And, while I’m not married, I can see your point about how more mature, grounded and steady Gen -Y bloggers are more interesting to read (and why wouldn’t they be?). I believe that taking yourself offline to network should be a given for most bloggers. Networking is too multifaceted to think that by using social media alone, networking will “take care of itself.”
Great post! I really do agree with you about the point on marriage. Gen Yers too often argue that marriage ruins your career and stops you from achieving success, but I think those arguments just don’t have merit. Especially coming from people who aren’t in serious relationships or who aren’t married. If a married person told me their marriage was holding them back career-wise, I’d accept that — but I don’t get why people who aren’t married at all are giving us this advice. It makes no sense as they don’t have personal experience.
If you are in a truly worthwhile relationship, your partner should be supporting you and your ambitions wholeheartedly, and you should be able to achieve your full potential in life with the help & support of your spouse. If you are in a relationship and that is holding you back, well then it’s the person that’s the problem. You’re not with the right person. I don’t think the institution of marriage or dating is the problem. The right person understands and more importantly, supports 100% your ambitions.
This is a really good post. I was agreeing with everything you wrote until your part about not living with your parents. There are many people who would completely disagree with you…especially when the economy is in the crapper like it is now. Living at home allows you to save a HUGE portion of your income that you’re not paying out in rent, enjoy ammentities of having a larger area that you may not in a place that you rent, enjoy family dinners when you want, still have freedom to come and go as you’d like, and many more. Living at home for a time period and saving your money is the most important part though. This can allow you to bypass renting an apartment, townhouse, house, room, etc and go straight into home ownership. It’s a great way to go if its an option for you. Now, granted, not everyone should live at home after graduating and those that do should not stay more than a year or two. But it gives you a great opportunity to save up and get on your feet the way that you want to when the chance comes and is right.
Monica, great post! I agree with everything. Working in a cubicle was an up and down experience, but was a great experience overall and one I recommend for everyone. I also echo that working from home kinda sucks. I’ve found that I actually get paid less. Working from home, I use a timer, and that timer stops for everything that is not actual work (getting a glass of water, lunch, personal calls, trip to the bathroom) so out of 7 hours of “work” you realize you will only get paid for like 5 of them. It was a shock the first time I used a timer. I support getting married, even thought I am not currently. Maybe if I stop asking my dates to list off 5 operas I would have a better chance.
1. MARRIAGE
You make valid points, but I want to point out that a long term cohabitation is LIKE a marriage, and even more so if you have kids. Not that I am anti-marriage but I think what would be more accurate is saying “long term relationship”.
Another point I want to make is that marriage to me, doesn’t change anything other than your name if you don’t have kids. I treat all my relationships seriously after the first trial year, as if I were married, and we do everything married couples do without being married. I think the real life-time commitment and stress of what you are perhaps calling “marriage” comes with having kids, married or not. Not with the actual marriage itself.. if that made sense?
It’s just that I think kids are a commitment for life. Marriage.. not so much. You cannot divorce children.
2. LIVING WITH PARENTS
I wholeheartedly agree with this.. except that if you DO live with your parents, the way I did for 8 months while I was on a project where they lived, you have to pay your way — we’re talking rent, food, and helping out around the house. Not sponging off them like a parasite.
3. CUBICLE
Agreed wholeheartedly. But I’m a bit of a workaholic, so being at home makes me more comfortable and I want to work longer than to be at work and always dream of coming home. I like working 10+ hours a day at home, because I can spread out that 8 hours instead of being chained somewhere 9-5 everyday, and then being let out of my cage. But I guess .. it’s not normal to work more at home.
4. PAY YOUR DUES
I agree with this. I worked for 2 years in a corporation, and then branched off on my own successfully. But I needed that 2 years and all of that knowledge about office politics, how the industry works.. education.. before leaving. If they had paid me more, I would have stayed for 5 years. *shrug* But then they screwed me so I left.
Great blog and article. Lots of food for thought. Am going to follow you now.
OH CRAP my entire post went in like THAT? without any spaces?I’m sorry. Apologies in advance.
I love this post. Just a couple of comments:
The part about paying your dues is great. People really don’t believe me when I say that to be exceptional at something, you need to do it over and over again. So even if you’re a great coder, you need to do many of the same things over and over again to be really great at it. Sure, you can reference documentation but you lose speed and flexibility. If you’ve built 10 e-commerce sites from scratch, are you going to tell me that the 11th one isn’t going to be implemented faster, better and have the ability to change more on the fly? The second part about marriage is probably more key to guy bloggers than gal bloggers, don’t you think? I think the key for that (regardless of gender) is that it almost automatically makes a person less selfish. Life becomes a question of “we” with a slew of little sacrifices every day. If you’re not thinking about how to get your own every second of the day, I think you will have better ideas and be more interesting.
Yeah, my reply just now to your comment, Monica, wouldn’t let me adjust my spacing and use paragraphs.
Sometimes boomeranging back home is more of a financial decision than anything. I live in DC and it isn’t uncommon to meet people who are living with relatives, parents, in-laws, what have you when they first come out here. I’m sensitive to that having friends who are barely keeping up with obscene student loan payments. I agree with the cubicle point, office life has its drawbacks but after going out on my own I realized how much I missed growing with colleagues in the workplace and supporting each other as we moved up to bigger things. When you work from home, building a community like that is on you and it’s hard to do from your living room.
Thank you for writing this. As much as I am in many ways this stereotype, you’ve underscored the things I strive to distance myself from. Namely, the whining, self-indulgent and arrogant musings of my peers. I’m as tired of it as you are. And I sure as heck don’t want to be that kind of person.
I don’t deserve to work whatever hours I feel like. I don’t deserve to do whatever the hell I want just because I think I have talent or am under utilized at my job. I make an effort to surround myself with reality-check people. As a relatively creative, intelligent person, I have some good ideas that could be great ideas and ideas that just seem like they’re good at the time, but probably aren’t.
The flip side of this is rethinking the status quo – you aren’t telling people they have to subscribe to one way of thinking, you’re telling them not to disregard it entirely. While I agree with paying dues (there IS something to be gained from doing things we don’t always enjoy), I also like it that you didn’t shut people down about becoming entrepreneurs and doing their own thing. This isn’t a post saying “hey, forget it, it won’t happen, because you’re a dick,” it’s a post saying, “that could be a really good idea, but be conservative about it. Don’t bet the family farm on a whim and hope it all works out – it probably won’t, and if Aunt Em plus the tin man and the rest of your entourage are telling you it’s not a great plan, well, time to come home, Dorothy.”
Simple, poignant post Monica (as always!)
I think that these tips aren’t just useful for making you a less annoying Gen Y blogger, but also serve to make you a better, more productive person overall. Getting off the computer is the big one (for me), because my fear is that the more Gen Y gets sucked into the computer, the less face time we’ll be making, with a negative result. The internet is fantastic, but the key here is balance, learning how to use online resources (like social networking) to enhance offline life.
Quick comment on the last point about not living with parents. I have to give a huge amen.
I get that a lot of people have to move back home right out of college, and I respect their decision to do it and save money. I had to do it, and I’m so thankful that I did because I now have a nice cushion just in case the worst-case-scenario hits.
But after a few months to a year [at most], it’s time to go. I lived with my parents for a year and a half, and while I’m thankful for what I saved, I’m still recovering from the sanity that was lost.
So, my advice: Move home if you have to, but get out as soon as possible. It’s not just about being embarrassed by your peers. It’s about not being able to challenge yourself like a true adult.
Monica, you hit the nail on the head with this post. While not as large (or annoying) as mommybloggers *shudder* the increasing pool of Gen Y bloggers who claim to be career experts has been growing at a worrisome rate. This wouldn’t be a bad thing if they weren’t all preaching their experiences and opinions as gospel. I’m 26, with a couple different jobs under my belt and an MBA. If I’m not at a point where I can offer suggestions and advice to others, then there shouldn’t be too many freshly minted 22 year olds who should be doing so. However I remember being 20, 21, and 22 very well — and at that point in my life I figured I knew everything too. How quickly found out that there’s a lot more to learning than just what you’re taught in school…
My favorite point of this article was your first one. The one thing I tell my friends when they hate their job is that they’ve got to “pay their dues.” No one walks in as the CEO. Many of my GenY peers don’t get that. For my first job I spent a year and some change as a production supervisor at a meat plant. Sure, it sucked — but my next employer liked the fact that I gutted it out. Now imagine how upset I get when I see that the idea of quitting your job after two weeks is being spread around as a good career move. “To each their own,” I say, but bad advice is bad advice. I’ll stop here as I don’t want to step on any more toes, but once again, great post.
Great post! Lately, I have been struggling with my own identity. At 27, am I really part of the twenty-set? Your post made me feel that perhaps – I am, but have been reading the wrong blogs for my goals and lifestyle.
The only note I will have for you is – please, enough people are getting married young because it’s something to do, or they want a party or whatever it is. At 27, I have lived with my boyfriend for about three years, and marriage is something that’s on the horizon – but I am glad I didn’t rush in. The idea of getting married at 22 or 23 is absolutely terrifying.
I agree with everything you’ve said, however, I am biased since I’ve actually done those things. I moved out on my own, had a cubicle job (still do, although it’s now an office with a window and a door) always focused more on real-life networking that social media, and I’m married with a child.
The “live at home” argument has always seemed selfish to me, because those that make it (such as Chris did above) talk about the savings, larger space, eating at home, and coming and going as you please. That’s pretty one-sided, since it requires your family to basically foot the bill while you have fun. While there are certain situations where it makes sense (tough job market, moving, etc), it shouldn’t be anything other than a short-term situation that involves paying rent and helping out.
Hi Monica,
Interesting post. I agree with some of what you say but have an opposing opinion on others fwiw.
Enjoy your cubicle.
I think routine is ok but in regards to travel, while it can become tiresome, I think Gen Yer’s should embrace traveling and get that experience before commitments such as family makes it impossible or difficult.
Do not live with your parents!
Economical, personal, or cultural reasons can make living with your parent the most ideal situation. I think there are a lot other better criteria for judging whether another is an “adult” or not.
There’s a lot to think about here. I completely agree with paying your dues, but not necessarily with, “So stay at your job, even if you hate it and feel that your talents extend way beyond the job description.” If it’s a talents issue, sure, get over it, but if you truly hate your job to the point that it makes you miserable… well then crappy or economy or not life is too short and I for one won’t bail on you if you quit.
That said, you better be looking for something in the mean time and do you damnedest to ensure that your next job is a ‘better fit,’ prior to taking it.
Most of the people have touched on the living with your parents issue to the point that I’m not sure I have much else to add. I have friends making 50K+ living with their families. Some don’t have any debt. Others have private school loans up to their eyes. Some are (were) in between jobs. Some pay rent. I try not to judge anyone’s circumstances because usually I don’t know the whole story. Maybe it’s such commonplace (in big cities? in the South where family-time is -really- emphasized?), but I don’t think twice about it. That said, am going to live at home with my parents one day? I doubt it, not for more than a couple of months. I could see it transitioning from somewhere to my own consulting business gig (one of these days), and staying at home just to ensure it’s what I want to do (moving expenses are expensive.)
Finally, I agree that there are a TON of Gen Y bloggers that are pontificating all kinds of bullshit, the value few and far between. That’s okay with me to because I just won’t read it. Some of them genuinely believe they’re providing this ‘amazing advice,’ and Lance is welcome to bring them back to reality for me, but others are just trying to navigate their space, and their lives.
No, they don’t have the experience to tell me how to confront my boss, how to ask for a raise/vacation, how to become more efficient, etc. They can tell me what ways may have worked for them, or what they THINK may work for them. I’ll take that information (should I choose to read past the headline) and glean any insight there is, and go on about my business with the assumption that they put that down on paper because it helped them think about the challenges they’re currently encountering in the workplace. SOMETIMES I even suspect that leaving a comment helping them ‘re-evaluate’ their thoughts will help them delve deeper (after all the resistance and bullshit comments they try to fight back with of course.)
Am I even making sense anymore? I think what I’m getting at is that all of your points are valid, and Gen Y bloggers should take them to heart, but the rest of us shouldn’t sit atop our thrones casting stones and telling them they suck either. To be clear you haven’t done this (neither did Charlie, and neither does Lance), you illustrated how they can start providing value — and I think that’s what most of us are trying to do.
Thanks for inviting me to add my $.02!
Thank you! I agree with almost everything in this post.
1. When I started working at my job, I was freaked out about having such a new constraint on my time. And i thought I would never get into it. And then I did. And now I’m having a lot of fun. Gen Y, don’t confuse the normal transition between college and working for not liking your job. Stick with it for at least half a year, get to know the job, get to know the people, establish yourself as trustworthy. Before you know it, you will be given more responsibility, which will make you feel better about yourself and like your job better.
3. Yes, working from home sucks. You become isolated, your networks shrinks. At the office, you have no choice but to work. Work ethic is contagious. And you get constant interaction with people. That is so important! Finally, routine is really great, especially when you make the big jump from college to a full-time job.
5. Tweeting back and forth does not a network make! Unless you actually make the jump from Twitter to real life. For example, I had breakfast with Jenny Blake this past weekend. She read my blog, I read hers, we tweeted back and forth a few times and then took our connection offline. Because that is what it is all about!
6. Yes, please do not live with your parents unless you are in a dire financial situation! Becoming independent as fast as you can in your early twenties is priceless. Don’t stifle that independence and personal growth by moving back to a comfort zone. And you will never learn to manage your finances while you still live with your parents.
Excellent post! It made me very happy when I read it this morning.
I suspect that in the end, many of the best gen y bloggers will be those that waited until their 30s before they started blogging regularly and getting an audience. Today, those people are virtually invisible online because they are busy learning and producing.
A friend of mine runs a million dollar business, and he’s not on Twitter and he doesn’t blog. Will he join “the conversation” one day? Probably so, and when he does, he will have abundant experiences and insights to share.I think that’s the rule, not the exception, for what will ultimately make for a great blogger, but we won’t see that played out for several years when those voices kick in and bump aside (or rather simply overshadow) the less substantive bloggers and personalities. At the moment, there is a vocal minority of first-movers who have gained attention by tossing out clever articulations of naive or simplistic opinions. The popularity contest effect kicks in, and people want to be friends with the ones who get the buzz and controversy going. A clique is born centered around getting attention, congratulating one another, and validating one another.
Are there great gen y bloggers writing today? Yes. Do some of the great bloggers have large audiences? Yes.
But not everyone with an audience today is producing great content. Many of them just have the time and the desire to make noise and get attention, and in due time, those audiences will grow bored and migrate toward content of greater substance.
Or maybe I’m wrong. Just my $.02 tonight.
And the best commenters are the ones who can successfully add line breaks into their writing, unlike me it would seem.
I liked this post, but I don’t quite see how it’s full of Gen Y stereotypes. Furthermore, I can’t imagine that getting married is the vehicle to maturity. It’s one way, but in a lot of situations, marrying young is actually a very immature decision. Marriage is romanticized and can lead to some serious consequences down the road when people who are 22, 23 realize that, weird, they didn’t know exactly what they wanted for the rest of their lives. To each their own, if you want to get married young, go for it. But, I’m not on board that it’s something I would promote or say is a conduit for maturity. And, you’re right – working from home is tough, but working a terrible job making zero money is bad, too. Some people can make it work, others can’t. Some people like a cubicle, others don’t. And, some people want consistency and routine, while others don’t thrive in that environment, no matter what the studies say. It’s all about preference – and I find that this post doesn’t leave too much room for people who don’t want to follow this path.
You’re right about blogging being something of an art, and I don’t think everyone with useful content will be able to translate that into something nteresting that gathers an audience. But my main point is that of the potential topics, only a few are viable options right now for Gen Y. Few of our generation can write about parenting or being a VC or a pastor or a best-selling author or having cancer or being CEO of a public company or being much of an expert at anything.
Our generation’s Tom Peters is probably climbing the ranks of IBM right now and doing more listening than talking and more working than social networking.
As an aside, it strikes me as funny that discussions of best gen y bloggers regularly omit A-listers that happen to be Gen Y like Randall Munroe and Pete Cashmore.
Or less well-known but brilliant bloggers like Clay Hebert and Richard Millington. I think that’s probably because there are two different approaches and mindsets to blogging: 1) I want to win the attention and respect of other gen y bloggers and to be popular 2) I want to go head to head with the very best in the world in my chosen field.
Randall is often funnier to me (admittedly it’s geek humor) than Scott Adams and makes a full-time living off of his comic and blog. Richard is genuinely respected by the senior members of his chosen profession and has used that reputation to make a living.
Rather than trying to be the Penelope Trunk of Gen Y or the Gary Vaynerchuk of the next generation, the real accomplishments is to start showing up on ‘Best Bloggers’ lists, without generational qualifications. After all, if you claim to be the equal of your seniors, why are they the ones with viable businesses and vastly more popular blogs?
That last question is a tongue-in-cheek, but I think it would do most of us well to aim higher and not settle for being the big fish in a pond splashing around in hopes of being noticed.
And I don’t think I’ve got it all figured out, by the way. I count myself as a member of the group I’m poking in this comment. I’ve been flirting with putting these thoughts into words for a while, and I guess I just got in the mood.
Good grief. Failed again to format my comment and with ridiculous mark-up in it as a bonus now. Monica, could you help me out with the formatting to make that legible and get rid of the <p>s along with this comment?
Monica, I strongly agree with you. The stereotype is narrow and provincial in nature, so I appreciate the Gen Y bloggers who don’t always fit the mold.
I strongly believe in paying my dues and I think that honoring your age, who you are and your experience at our young(ish) age is important. I’m not saying put your head down and don’t speak up, but I think everyone has to pay their dues. I even remember a few years ago as an intern being slightly frustrated but I told myself, this experience is getting you somewhere. You’re learning and paying your dues. You don’t become a CEO or run your own company overnight. I have an interesting thought about those who still live at home with their parents and that is, it can’t last for more than three months then I believe you’re really living off of them. I see the interim (between grad school, financial bind, between jobs, before/after travel) but if you really want to do something and make it happen on your own, don’t live with your rents. I think it says you can handle the challenges, versus being comfortable at home.
Thanks for sharing, all good thoughts Monica!
I want to say that, for the most part, I agree with at least some of the things you have to say here. I do think that, generally speaking, people should pay their dues, take criticism gracefully, and even get off your computer (however little I do that myself.) That being said, I think a lot of the other things you had to say–about living with parents and about getting married, in particular–were incredibly judgmental and not necessarily based on reality. I want to disclaim this by saying that I live 2,000 miles from my parents (independently) and am in a serious relationship with someone I plan on marrying, so I don’t want you to think this is coming from a defensive place.
A lot of people move back home for financial reasons or because it’s part of their culture. I don’t necessarily think this is a sign of lack of maturity. I know very few young people these days who move back home with mom and dad expecting a free ride. Most of my acquaintance who have done so have jobs, contribute financially, share household responsibilities, and are doing so usually because of some combination of low-paying job (but in a field they love), student loan payments, and a desire to save for a home of their own. I think by automatically attaching the stigma of “failure” to anyone who moves back home is relying on stereotypes rather than looking at the reality. I’m not arguing there aren’t people who use their parents as a free ride…but lighten up on the judgment. I think many of the people who do move back home struggle enough with their own misgivings about being seen as people who failed to grow up without complete strangers who do not understand their situation, or even care to understand their situation, piling on.
And as for marriage…getting married rarely gives a person a golden ticket to mature, responsible, self-aware adulthood. Can marriage force you to change your perspective? Yes, it can. But it doesn’t always for everyone. I also don’t think marriage makes you more insightful or more interesting. I’ve read way too many boring, badly written newly wed blogs to believe this is any more than your personal conviction that you yourself gained insight after getting married. Just like I’ve read way too many brilliant blogs by single people to believe that you have to be married to be interesting or insightful. I do think that you probably find blogs by the recently wedded more interesting, since they are probably going through a lot of the same things you do. I think it’s important, though, not to conflate your preference for reading material with what everyone likes. While I read some distaste for the mommy bloggers in your comments, I guarantee you they probably feel the same way about all the newly wed bloggers that you do about the single bloggers.
Regardless, there are many reasons why people don’t get married that have nothing to do with maturity. They haven’t met the right person. They are more focused on their education or career. They would like more time to see the world on their own. Maybe they just want some time to prove they can be completely independent. While arguing that marriage in general is a bad thing is unwise, arguing that marriage would be a bad thing for you at a particular time or place in your life is just the opposite. Again, don’t be so quick to attach judgment about a person’s maturity level to a social rite of passage. To be honest, this particular post came off as judgmental and, I hate to say this, unbelievably self-absorbed. The assumption that because you have done these things and feel you have been successful in part because of these things must mean that everyone else should do them, too–and anyone who doesn’t has clearly failed to grow up–made it very hard to take the rest of the advice, which was on the whole pretty good, seriously. Your tendency to conflate your opinion with everyone else’s opinion is also completely grating, and betrays the worst of all the Gen Y stereotypes: the belief that the world revolves around you. When someone argues that marriage has made them more self-aware, but then fails to recognize that their opinion is by no means universal or even in the majority…
I honestly almost wrote off your entire blog (not just this post) before reading any further than the first two paragraphs.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Great post! However, I disagree that living with your parents says you can't deal with adulthood. In many cultures, its customary to live with your parents until you get married. That doesn't mean that you contribute nothing to the household- you should help pay for bill/the mortgage and not sponge off of them. But I know a lot of people that feel like this part of the culture is important to them.
Matt,
Thanks! I’d love to hear your thoughts, whether in the comments section or on your own blog.
Sam,
Marriage definitely changes your perspective. It’s important to wait until you’re ready, of course. I am also one of the people who probably spends too much time on the computer. But I realized that the most important people I meet, particularly in my area, tend to be at networking events. One of my new goals is to purposefully integrate professional networking events into my life – one or two a week if possible. I’m a firm believer that a few minutes of face time can make a greater impact than a blog post on it’s own.
Raven,
That’s such an interesting setup! Congratulations on owning a house and supporting your parents.
I think there are many ways to gain maturity besides marriage, but marriage is one route because it’s so difficult to create a life with another person, even when you love them. Marriage complicates career and life decisions, which makes the problems more interesting to write about.
We all want to think we’re great networkers offline, but I have to wonder. I get too caught up in social media sometimes. And I’m sure I’ve missed opportunities as a result. So I hope that point serves as a reminder to get out there and network in person.
Akhila,
Exactly. That’s such an eloquent way of putting it. I get very frustrated by people who criticize young marriages when they themselves are not married. Marriage is obviously a personal decision and if you find the right person it can be the right decision for you and your career.
I think this could come from the fact that, even if you have a wonderful supportive spouse, your career options can be limited geographically or financially. I’m not married yet, and this is already something I’ve come up against. I moved to Oregon so that my boyfriend could go to school here, even if it’s not somewhere I particularly want to be. And I’m sticking with a high-paying job I’m not very interested in because for now, I’m the primary breadwinner and can’t afford to take a pay cut. My boyfriend has been very supportive, very encouraging, and yet…for now, this is the right decision for us, even if it’s not necessarily the best thing for me or my career. I think the argument that you need to be married to understand some of the challenges or downsides of marriage is at least partly incorrect. People who are just starting out in their careers and who would prefer to focus on their careers are probably absolutely correct when they state that now is not the time for them to get married. Marriage can be limiting, especially if you work long hours or need to move across the country. I don’t think that’s a reflection of their maturity, either. I think it’s just a reflection of where people place their priorities. If your priority isn’t relationships or starting a family, you shouldn’t focus your time and attention there, regardless of societal pressures.
Chris,
Very good points. I was hesitant to write about not living with your parents because I think there are many circumstances where living with parents can help a Gen Y’er. Like the one you mentioned. It’s really up to the person to decide when they are doing something to reach a goal vs. when they are just leaching off their parents.
I know a guy who was 26 and moved back in with his parents for a year. But he did it to save money for a house and help his family (by paying rent). I also know a girl who could not get a job after college in her major, but moved out anyway to a cheaper city and gets by just fine with a waitress job. I really admire her for a) not thinking waitress jobs are below her, and b) continuing to pursue a job that relates to her major, but doing it on her own dime.
There are going to be circumstances when moving back in with parents makes sense, but the majority of Gen Y’ers can make other trade-offs that still allow them to be independent after college. It may mean downsizing and cutting out expensive purchases, but it can be done. Thank you for the comment!
Kristina,
Thanks for sharing the tip about the timer! I think I’ll have to use that to judge my productivity at home. I do have an office space that I go to sometimes to get work done, but by and large it is easy to get distracted by the dogs, phone calls, the TV, and other internet surfing.
Hilarious about the five operas!
It’s my fault – my plugin for the comments is messed up. I fixed your spacing. Sorry about that!
Fabulously Broke,
Good point about marriage. I used the term marriage but I think most long-term relationships qualify and essentially can serve the same purpose, depending on the people in the relationship. I actually think kids is probably the ultimate lifestyle change that can help young people become more mature. I don’t have kids yet, but I know once we start a family I’m going to have to grow up all over again
Great approaches you mentioned in your other points. I worked 2.5 years in a corporation as well. It probably wasn’t the longest I could have stayed either. I am glad to be out now, but I do think those first 2.5 years were a great learning experience.
I think everyone should try a timer (I use timestamp. It’s free and I can print off reports, which working for law firms is an important feature). It really shows you how much time you spend not working.
In response to the part about living at home, I agree that it shouldn’t be done if people are just going to be lazy and mooch off their parts. However, there are circumstances when it is justified. I live at home now. Originally I moved home because I was trying to be a dancer in So Cal where the cost of living is rediculous. I couldn’t make it happen on what I was making as a dancer and working odd jobs. Also, living at home gave me a 6 mile round trip commute to the dance studio. I am now not dancing, but no point in moving out when I know that I am going to law school in a little over a year. Might as well stay and save up for the big expense looming in my futere.
So, should I lower my expectations or continue beliving that some single guy out there knows his operas?
Lance,
I’ve definitely realized how important paying your dues is. I agree that you need at least a few years of doing something repeatedly to become an expert at what you do. You can expedite the process by blogging, doing side work and part-time jobs – but the number of hours you need to work at something to get good remains the same.
I don’t know whether the marriage point applies more to guys or girls. Personally, I was very selfish before I got married, and still have to take a step back and consider what my husband wants and figure out how we can meet in the middle. Marriage isn’t a one-time fix, it’s a process and you can always work at becoming a better spouse.
Thanks for the comment! I always love to hear your thoughts on these topics.
Kristina,
It sounds like you’re on a good path and have weighed the trade-offs for living with your parents. I definitely think there are circumstances that living with your parents works.
I’m confident there are guys who love opera out there
. If it’s important to you don’t compromise!
Sabrina,
I think it must be very common in large cities, just because the cost of living is ridiculous most of the time! Office life did have it’s drawbacks, but I think most people do not actually want to work from home, they just want more flexible work schedules. That is usually attainable in the corporate environment. And, of course – I think there are rules for a reason sometimes. Because, really, like you said, working from home forces you to build a community on your own, and that takes up a lot of time. Which can make you feel like you’re being productive when maybe you are not getting enough work done for the company.
Alex,
Thanks so much for the comment. I’m definitely not against entrepreneurship. I just see some people taking it on too early, when they don’t have the maturity to match the work. Love your Wizard of Oz reference
And I agree about distancing yourself from these stereotypes – unfortunately that sometimes means distancing yourself from being a Gen Y blogger to begin with.
Nicole,
That’s probably true. I think it’s most applicable to Gen Y just because some more recent graduates seem like they know everything. (There are tons of great bloggers who are graduating who don’t act like that too though.)
Paige,
Interesting perspective. I think the emotional insanity would be enough of a reason for me to not move in with my parents. Now that I’m married it will pretty much never be an option for my husband and I. So it’s definitely hard to relate to, but it’s good to hear from someone who’s been there!
TOPolk,
I agree that we should always distinguish between a difference of opinion and plain bad advice or a wrong answer. I don’t understand why some people continue to support their arguments with illogical, radical conclusions, long after everyone else has explained to them where the arguments have flaws. Blogging is not about always being right; it’s about the conversation, which should ultimately lead to insight.
Erica,
I hope you’ll stick around. I think there’s a gap in the twenty-set right now. Maybe I just see it that way because I’m getting old
Regarding marriage, I actually got married at 22. I think it’s a personal decision. I know people who got married in high school and are still together, with no kids and very successful careers. I know 40-somethings who got married in their 30′s and tell me “I waited – it didn’t help” while waving their divorce papers on their blogs.
No matter what age you get married, it will be a huge lifestyle change. Same as kids. Perhaps it’s better to wait, statistically, but sometimes you just meet the right person when you’re young too. Thanks for the comment!
Sorry – I realize now that it looks like I made a blanket judgment on all young marriages. That was not my intention. I am just saying – career choices can be done. And so can marriages, but I would hate to see anyone rush into a marriage just to check something off a list.
Norcross,
Yeah, I’m pretty biased too, obviously. Because I’ve done all these things too.
I agree with the “Live at home” argument. But I’m biased. I never moved home after college and can’t imagine why anyone would. None of my friends really moved home either. And it’s not like I didn’t struggle my first year out of college with paying bills, but I cut out all social activities for 6 months and saved that money for a down payment on a house. And yeah, it was hard, but I’m very proud of “making it.”
I tend to think there are probably trade-offs that Gen Y doesn’t want to deal with. Like giving up a hefty cell phone bill or cable TV or drinks with friends every weekend. I know I shouldn’t judge and this doesn’t apply to everyone. But I can’t help theorizing that it applies to some people, and I have to question what that really teaches you about life.
Greg,
Those are fair points. I was really just talking about traveling for work, ie: consultants.
In terms of traveling after graduation, I mean, maybe. I don’t think it’s a horrible path to take, but it doesn’t really help your career. Unless you are doing the Peace Corp or something I have to question whether an employer will see the value in it. It’s one thing to take a job or internship abroad, it’s another to ditch responsibility and take a road trip across the country.
In terms of living with your parents, maybe it’s just not for me. I think it’s really weird unless you have a unique situation. It’s definitely not a determinant in whether you are “adult” or not (I don’t think I said that?) but it can help Gen Y put off the real world.
Ryan,
Awesome comment. You gave me a lot to think about.
In the end, you’re right. It’s not nice or appropriate to sit back and tell other people they suck. And I’ve definitely felt like I leave comments to help people re-evaluate their thinking and they take it the wrong way. And it’s not even my place to judge what is valuable and what is not; just what’s valuable to me. Maybe that’s the take-away – let others do what they want and just stop reading.
Erica,
I’m not saying you’re wrong by any means. Marriage is working out for me so far, but who knows? I hope no one would take the advice to get married literally; my hope is actually that people who aren’t in serious relationships can stop writing about how stupid marriage is for anyone in Gen Y who wants a good career. Those posts annoy me
For me, maturity has been all about trade-offs. Or more specifically, giving up things I’d “rather” do for things I “need” to do. I still think back to my parents, who got married at 21 and had 3 kids by 30. They certainly put aside their own wants for the benefit of us. Now they are in their late 50′s and get to do the things others have mentioned, such as travel.
Irina,
I wholeheartedly agree with your first point. Many Gen Y bloggers think they “hate” their jobs when really they just “hate” having deal with adulthood. Going from college to the real world sucks! That transition was one of the hardest ones I’ve ever made in my life. Also agree with not truly learning how to manage your finances (and moreso, your risk in general) until you move out of the ‘rents house. Thanks for the comment!
Norcross,
Yep, that’s life. I hate making those trade-offs but it’s better the younger you start, I think.
Chuck,
Your comment made me think a lot about this idea last night. Your point is insightful. I do agree that there are many bloggers who have large audiences who seemingly don’t produce great content.
I also wonder if maybe that content just doesn’t resonate with me, like what Ryan Stephens said.
The second question I have is whether what you said about people who are not online now having more to contribute later. I think that blogging and especially building an audience is part-art. I know tons of people who are awesome and experienced offline. CEOs, people working on cutting edge tech, etc. They also have blogs that they don’t update, and their blog posts that are there are boring. And honestly, I don’t read their blogs, because they’re only interesting in person.
I know these people have a lot to offer – but I have to wonder if blogging will ever be the right medium for them to share those things. If it is, wouldn’t they be online now? Blogging isn’t very new. And Twitter is going more mainstream too.
This isn’t to say there won’t ever be new players in the blogosphere – there are new players coming out of the woodwork every day. But I think people with large audiences have probably gotten there by resonating with their audience. That doesn’t mean they’re the best, just that they are good bloggers and good at marketing themselves.
Good blog topic. I’d be interested in a separate post on this topic.
Jamie,
Thanks for the comment!
The Gen Y stereotypes I thought of were:
1. Gen Y doesn’t want to pay dues
2. Gen Y knows everything
3. Gen Y wants to go into entrepreneurship rather than work in corporate
4. Gen Y waits to get married
5. Gen Y makes connections on the internet
6. Gen Y moves back home after graduation
There are of course a ton of other Gen Y stereotypes I left out.
Regarding your point about marriage, people who get married at all ages get divorced, not just people who marry young. Getting married at any age is a bad idea if you don’t know what you want. In my experience, most young people who aren’t married have not found the right person. If you find the right person when you are 20 you end up getting married young – that’s just life. And statistically, people who live together for a long time before marriage are more likely to get divorced.
I agree with you that marriage is not the only vehicle for maturity.
I also agree that working a terrible job making no money is bad too. There’s a trade-off, of course, for any job.
And I agree that it’s all about preference in the end, and that people should find their own path because life is not as simple as we lay it out in blog posts. But I sometimes think that argument is a cop-out too, because you can always argue that people have different preferences, but that’s kind of like saying “let’s agree to disagree” without bringing forth the pros and cons first.
I tend to learn more when people bring forth other viewpoints that challenge my thinking, even if they are just playing devil’s advocate. It either forces me to defend my points with better arguments, or it causes me to change my opinion (which is actually more exciting for me
).
Chuck,
I see what you’re saying. Great points. You are right that most of us don’t have much to talk about and kind of end up talking about ourselves or generational issues or what we as Gen Y want. Personally, I adore Pete Cashmore and admire Richard Millington and even Ramit Sethi, whom you didn’t mention. I agree that most people don’t think of them as Gen Y bloggers. I don’t. But that’s probably because of their mainstream popularity and because they don’t write about Gen Y topics.
I think when people have those “Top Gen Y bloggers” lists they usually do just want other Gen Y bloggers to like them. (I actually can’t remember if I’ve written one of these posts, but I’m probably guilty of it too.) I also think people see the Brazen Careerist community as the only source for Gen Y bloggers. It’s an incestuous pool of linking and conversing. Which I maybe shouldn’t say, because I’ve contributed so much to that community’s success and still sometimes participate in the linking and conversing.
I think many Gen Y bloggers also confuse the benefits of blogging. We write about our opinions mostly, or how to manage our careers. But the true benefit of blogging from the career perspective is to write about topics within your chosen field, and become an expert on them. So many people write about how to manage a career when they are not looking to become a career coach or an HR professional – so they can’t really get on the “Best Bloggers” lists because nobody takes them seriously. And I’ve noticed that a ton of Gen Y bloggers are now creating a separate blog to become experts on a topic that’s not Gen Y centric.
I think there is a lot of hope for Gen Y bloggers but we’ve all got to get away from the “Gen Y in the ___________” topic. Fill in the blank with workplace, community, environment, media – it’s all the same at the end of the day.
(PS. I fully include myself in the group that needs to get away from these topics
)
Ditto Ryan!
Monica, great post! I related to this in so many ways
Kiersten,
Thanks! Glad to hear it resonated with you.
Grace,
I’m a big fan of paying your dues. To be honest, I probably wasn’t when I had just graduated. But now I recognize the importance of starting at the bottom and working your way up. Aside from gaining experience, things tend to taste sweeter when you know you’ve worked hard for them.
I completely agree that most people who live at home too long after graduation get too comfortable. There’s the possibility of complacency in a job search or even just a job. Sometimes having bills to pay lights a fire, and working through that burn ultimately makes you stronger, more independent, and more resilient.
Oh wow. Formatting fail.
Katie,
Thanks for the second comment. Don’t take what I wrote here too literally. It’s written in absolutes to demonstrate points, not to serve as a rulebook for everyone to live their lives by.
I am cognizant of the fact that this post is probably judgmental (yes – I’ll admit that – it’s halfway to a rant after all), that preference always plays a part in decisions, and that there will always be exceptions to every rule. But as a whole, I stand by my points. And of course, my points will always reflect my preferences, no matter what the topic is.
Katie,
Good points. I conceded in earlier comments as well that long-term relationships probably have similar effects to marriage. The one caveat I would add to that is marriage truly does force you to work through the relationship in a way that I don’t see with a live-in arrangement. There were many times that I wanted to reconsider my marriage in the first couple years, but we worked through it because the commitment is for a lifetime. I think if we weren’t married, we may not have been able to work past some of those problems we were confronted with because a live-in arrangement makes it a lot easier to give up.
Also, I agree that marriage isn’t the only way to gain maturity, but I do think it’s a reflection of maturity because it takes maturity to make that commitment.
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